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NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

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Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#11

Post by mtgx »

brown9-2 wrote: post #6
mitchelllc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am wondering what the most serious consequence will be, resign or more serious?

There will be no consequences because Congress is behind this program, it is legal, and whether or not this testimony was a "lie" depends upon very specific definitions of terms like "intercept". Most of us might hate that the government has this power but that does not make it extra-legal.

Yes, at best, we could hope for a resignation and replacement. Forget about any real "punishment". It just won't happen. The whole government was behind this, including the White House and Congress.

Still, a resignation might give us some hope that at the very least the recognize how outraged this makes use, and they'll try to do better in the future. If they don't do that, then that's just defiance against the American people and against the Constitution.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#12

Post by ISL »

brown9-2 wrote: post #5

Yes. Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails? No. Does the NSA intercept Americans’ cell phone conversations? No. It's worth noting that "intercept" has a very specific meaning here, which the Congressman asking the question nor the reporter may not have realized. From http://theweek.com/article/index/245228/the-fbi-collects-all... A few definitions: to "collect" means to gather and store; to "anal…

The interception was done by Verizon, and the authorization appears to be via the FBI. Once that's done, NSA can help out if the FBI wants help. In this picture, General Alexander's answers are correct.

That won't stop Congress from being livid, should the representatives choose to be.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#14

Post by brown9-2 »

ISL wrote: post #12
brown9-2 wrote: post #5

Yes. Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails? No. Does the NSA intercept Americans’ cell phone conversations? No. It's worth noting that "intercept" has a very specific meaning here, which the Congressman asking the question nor the reporter may not have realized. From http://theweek.com/article/index/245228/the-fbi-collects-all... A few definitions: to "collect" means to gather and store; to "anal…

The interception was done by Verizon, and the authorization appears to be via the FBI. Once that's done, NSA can help out if the FBI wants help. In this picture, General Alexander's answers are correct. That won't stop Congress from being livid, should the representatives choose to be.

In this case, and using these definitions, it appears no "interception" happens because there is not a computer or human listening to the actual phone calls. Verizon is sending the call "metadata".

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#15

Post by chris_mahan »

brown9-2 wrote: post #14
ISL wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interception was done by Verizon, and the authorization appears to be via the FBI. Once that's done, NSA can help out if the FBI wants help. In this picture, General Alexander's answers are correct. That won't stop Congress from being livid, should the representatives choose to be.

In this case, and using these definitions, it appears no "interception" happens because there is not a computer or human listening to the actual phone calls. Verizon is sending the call "metadata".

per the definition given above: "to "intercept" means that a computer or human actually listens to or records calls." if a computer records a call, it's intercepted, no?

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#16

Post by SoftwareMaven »

rosser wrote: post #8

I wish I were only snarking when I wonder whether there's a double-top-secret exemption to the laws about perjuring one's self before Congress, which is, itself, secret. It just wouldn't do to have the laws that allow people to lie to Congress about secret stuff be public knowledge, after all...

I doubt it. Instead, I would bet it is under the table, since, in most cases, the truth can't be determined, and, if the truth is determined, somebody will have to be on the receiving end of the witch hunt, regardless of whether there was some "secret perjury immunity".

In other words, if we find out this guy is lying through his teeth, he's toast no matter what the rules said he "could" say.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#17

Post by navyrain »

It seems pretty clear that the NSA engages in bulk collection of databases which _might_ someday contain something interesting, and only considers it "interception" when they query their own DBs.

These creative redefinitions of seemingly benign terms are at the root of the problem.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#18

Post by snarfy »

brown9-2 wrote: post #5

Yes. Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails? No. Does the NSA intercept Americans’ cell phone conversations? No. It's worth noting that "intercept" has a very specific meaning here, which the Congressman asking the question nor the reporter may not have realized. From http://theweek.com/article/index/245228/the-fbi-collects-all... A few definitions: to "collect" means to gather and store; to "anal…

Good catch, and it's important to understand when dealing with the law that every single word has a specific legal interpretation. This is where Clinton's famous "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is" came from. Re-read those questions and realize every single word in each sentence has a few pages of legalize that defines it. 'NSA', 'intercept', 'Americans', etc. Each word.

Re: NSA Chief Denies Domestic Spying Story (2012)

#20

Post by sinnerswing »

brown9-2 wrote: post #5

Yes. Does the NSA routinely intercept American citizens’ emails? No. Does the NSA intercept Americans’ cell phone conversations? No. It's worth noting that "intercept" has a very specific meaning here, which the Congressman asking the question nor the reporter may not have realized. From http://theweek.com/article/index/245228/the-fbi-collects-all... A few definitions: to "collect" means to gather and store; to "anal…

Not surprise this is happening at all.

"Obama administration spied on Fox News reporter James Rosen"

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-admin-spied-fox-new...

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