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Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

economist.com

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Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#11

Post by lifeisstillgood »

ng12 wrote: post #6
dumitrue wrote: post #2

2 year-old story. Previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2019665 [886 days old] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5503996 [46 days old]

True, but I think this deserves reconsideration considering the recent debate about H1-B visas -- especially since the fact that there are (relatively) few US-born PhD's is one of the major justifications for increasing the number of visas awarded.

On that note can anyone explain to me why immigration reform is a hot button in us politics - surely if you want to employ someone from outside the US you tell them to use Skype.

A plane ticket every six weeks will increase your selection far more than anything congress can pass - especially for a hot coder with you know family and commitments

Or is that it - let the cheap young single coders in ?

Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#12

Post by dumitrue »

jacoblyles wrote: post #3

We need to open up the knowledge guild so that people don't have to get a PHD to participate in new research. Open Access to scientific journals is a good first step.

There's absolutely no requirement to have a PhD to participate in research (grad students would never get to publish, though I understand this is not what you meant). When you submit an article to a journal or a conference (at least in my field), you don't get to (or have to) expose your credentials. In fact, a lot of times the submissions are double-blind so the reviewers don't even get to see your name or your institution.

If you have a crazy idea and the peer reviewers find it worthwhile publishing, it'll make it into publication even if you don't have a GED.

Open Access is a completely orthogonal issue to this.

Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#14

Post by kaeluka »

I'm so sick of economists/journalists/outsiders implying that the reason to study or, more general, to learn is income. I do it because it's giving me the chance to pick problems I find interesting, try to solve them as best as possible and learn a lot about myself along the way.

Also, where I'm doing my PhD, a starting salary as a PhD student is comparable (slightly lower) with entry level programmer salaries.

edit: economists -> economists/journalists/outsiders

Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#15

Post by manaskarekar »

sgt101 wrote: post #8

It takes a certain poverty of mind to quantify the value of an education in terms of earnings. I don't earn a huge amount, but I have a fantastic job, I live in a wonderful place about 5 minutes from my office and doing my Ph.D. was the best thing that I ever did. I agree that you don't need one, and many people with one that I have met and employed are fairly hopeless (in comparison to razor sharp and super talented…

Reminds me of 'The illustrated guide to a Ph.D' - http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#16

Post by dumitrue »

ng12 wrote: post #6
dumitrue wrote: post #2

2 year-old story. Previous discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2019665 [886 days old] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5503996 [46 days old]

True, but I think this deserves reconsideration considering the recent debate about H1-B visas -- especially since the fact that there are (relatively) few US-born PhD's is one of the major justifications for increasing the number of visas awarded.

I see. Nothing gets to rattle the flame wars around here more than the combo of "is higher education really necessary or can I drop out and build the next tumblr?" and "highly-skilled aliens with PhDs are taking our jobs by accepting lower wages". Good job.

Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#17

Post by p4bl0 »

"Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time". I admit it, I didn't even read farther.

Would it even come to mind to people writing this kind of article that one might do a PhD by passion and interest? If one wants to do research and teach, on one hand doing a PhD is the (only?) way to start doing this two-sides job immediately after a master and on the other hand it's the better way to get this kind of job after?

And even if one doesn't want to pursue a career in academia, one could perfectly want to do some research in a first time and only after that get a job in industry. Maybe one doesn't care that he is not paid more than if he did get a job in industry right after his master, because he did something that passionated him for a few years in between?

Seriously what's the point of this kind of article? A PhD is a fantastic adventure! If people want to do a PhD let them. People don't do PhD to earn more money, that's just a stupid idea.

EDIT: Ah! I'm happy to see that while I wrote this comment a few others with the same idea were posted :-).

Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#18

Post by enraged_camel »

sgt101 wrote: post #8

It takes a certain poverty of mind to quantify the value of an education in terms of earnings. I don't earn a huge amount, but I have a fantastic job, I live in a wonderful place about 5 minutes from my office and doing my Ph.D. was the best thing that I ever did. I agree that you don't need one, and many people with one that I have met and employed are fairly hopeless (in comparison to razor sharp and super talented…

>>It takes a certain poverty of mind to quantify the value of an education in terms of earnings.

I don't know... If I spend up to 7 years of my life studying and researching my ass off to become one of the foremost experts in a specialized field, then it better have more benefits than just personal satisfaction.

A fantastic job with good living arrangements do not require a Ph.D.

Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#19

Post by kaeluka »

manaskarekar wrote: post #15
sgt101 wrote: post #8

It takes a certain poverty of mind to quantify the value of an education in terms of earnings. I don't earn a huge amount, but I have a fantastic job, I live in a wonderful place about 5 minutes from my office and doing my Ph.D. was the best thing that I ever did. I agree that you don't need one, and many people with one that I have met and employed are fairly hopeless (in comparison to razor sharp and super talented…

Reminds me of 'The illustrated guide to a Ph.D' - http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

I saw Matt Might give this talk (or: a talk with this topic) this year -- my god, what a gifted speaker!

Re: Doctoral degrees: The disposable academic (2010)

#20

Post by dumitrue »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #11
ng12 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I think this deserves reconsideration considering the recent debate about H1-B visas -- especially since the fact that there are (relatively) few US-born PhD's is one of the major justifications for increasing the number of visas awarded.

On that note can anyone explain to me why immigration reform is a hot button in us politics - surely if you want to employ someone from outside the US you tell them to use Skype. A plane ticket every six weeks will increase your selection far more than anything congress can pass - especially for a hot coder with you know family and commitments Or is that it - let the cheap young single coders in ?

H1Bs can't vote you out of office so it's easy to be against them, the risk is lower to lose political capital (especially if you frame the discussion in terms of "protecting the jobs for Americans").
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