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U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands

computerworld.com

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Re: U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands

#11

Post by jiggy2011 »

zanny wrote: post #6
hristov wrote: post #3

This does not necessarily mean that wages are falling. It could be that a lot of the new jobs created are "beginner" jobs with lower wages that pull the average down, but the existing jobs still pay what they used to or more.

What is / will drive wages down is making the process of becoming an (experienced) programmer easier, by lowering the per case work needing done and lowering the barrier to entry (compare writing C++ in 2002 to 2012), and the resources available) and that most use cases are best suited by high level dynamic languages like Python or Ruby, which have significantly less work investment to get results compared to old fav…

This is somewhat offset by higher expectations. Every app better have 9 trillion features and social network integration etc.

The complexities of twiddling with memory have been replaced with the complexities of making a ton of different systems work together in a sane way.

Re: U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands

#13

Post by arasmussen »

This title seems very misleading. There's a difference between "U.S. Software developer wages [falling] 2%" and the average falling by 2%. Since the demand for software engineers is so high, perhaps companies have been lowering the bar for how qualified an engineer needs to be in order to be hired. Less qualified generally means paid less. That's just a theory but it's what I think is happening.

I've heard from industry sources that the same engineer is worth as much as 7% more than he was last year (not including the experience he gained since last year). I'd believe it. I think the qualification bar is just lowered because the demand is so high and supply so low.

Re: U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands

#14

Post by inovator »

grdvnl wrote: post #10
hristov wrote: post #3

This does not necessarily mean that wages are falling. It could be that a lot of the new jobs created are "beginner" jobs with lower wages that pull the average down, but the existing jobs still pay what they used to or more.

I think even in the Silicon Valley the salaries other than the selective big guys has not even kept up with inflation. A 2 year-experience developer still gets between 80-100k or less. This is what was being paid in 2000 as well. The situation is probably the same elsewhere. Of course, my numbers above are from my own poor sampling.

And without consideration of inflation.

Re: U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands

#15

Post by modarts »

andrewvc wrote: post #8
zanny wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is / will drive wages down is making the process of becoming an (experienced) programmer easier, by lowering the per case work needing done and lowering the barrier to entry (compare writing C++ in 2002 to 2012), and the resources available) and that most use cases are best suited by high level dynamic languages like Python or Ruby, which have significantly less work investment to get results compared to old fav…

Possibly, however the better you are the faster you work the higher your value per hour. If I can be 3x as efficient as a junior dev I'm still worth more.

If you are introducing bugs that will at some point need to be addressed while "working fast", that'll cut away at a lot of the added value.

Re: U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands

#17

Post by ardit33 »

I think this has due to an expansion of entry level jobs. ie. Code/App Academy, people learning Ruby on Rails and going to entry level jobs. Since tools are getting better and better, there is an expansion on the lower level of engineering. They should have been measuring people with the same level of experience (e.g. 5 years or experience), and see how they stack up.

My personal experience, and from what I have seen around for experienced devs, expect a 5%-6% increases annually (few percentage points above inflation). It is never linear though. You usually you might see this increase as a modest early 3%-4% on your current job, and then if you switch jobs every 3 years or so, get another 10% or sometimes more from your new employer. This is for experienced engineers (5+ years). If you are very early in your career you probably will see higher jumps on your early years.

Re: U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands

#19

Post by jiggy2011 »

modarts wrote: post #15
andrewvc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, however the better you are the faster you work the higher your value per hour. If I can be 3x as efficient as a junior dev I'm still worth more.

If you are introducing bugs that will at some point need to be addressed while "working fast", that'll cut away at a lot of the added value.

This is where experience helps. You know how to be efficient without sacrificing code quality and you also get a better intuition for tracking bugs that you do have.

Re: U.S. Software developer wages fall 2% as workforce expands

#20

Post by iyulaev »

zanny wrote: post #6
hristov wrote: post #3

This does not necessarily mean that wages are falling. It could be that a lot of the new jobs created are "beginner" jobs with lower wages that pull the average down, but the existing jobs still pay what they used to or more.

What is / will drive wages down is making the process of becoming an (experienced) programmer easier, by lowering the per case work needing done and lowering the barrier to entry (compare writing C++ in 2002 to 2012), and the resources available) and that most use cases are best suited by high level dynamic languages like Python or Ruby, which have significantly less work investment to get results compared to old fav…

Wasn't the same thing said when we went from hard-wiring programs to writing machine code, then from machine code to assembly, then to 3rd generation programming languages, and so on?
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