Perl 5.18.0 is now available • Hacker News Board

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#11

Post by espadrine » Sat, May 18, 2013, 4:46 PM UTC

mhd wrote: post #10

rmah wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perl 6 isn't perl.

I think there should be some kind of changing of names. For a while it looked like it's another incremental step, if a big one. Which obviously requires running two implementations in parallel for a while -- similar to Python 2 and 3, or several operating systems and distros. But right now, especially once Perl development really picked up, it might be time to "divorce" the two languages. It seems more like Algol60 v…

Perl5 users won't switch to Perl6 because they're working on Perl5 code and don't want to change their habits.

Non-Perl devs won't switch to Perl6 because the P word scares them.

So, yes, changing the name might be a good idea.

And making an enjoyable web-based tutorial.

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#12

Post by aduitsis » Sat, May 18, 2013, 4:48 PM UTC

mhd wrote: post #10

rmah wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perl 6 isn't perl.

I think there should be some kind of changing of names. For a while it looked like it's another incremental step, if a big one. Which obviously requires running two implementations in parallel for a while -- similar to Python 2 and 3, or several operating systems and distros. But right now, especially once Perl development really picked up, it might be time to "divorce" the two languages. It seems more like Algol60 v…

You can use perlbrew to install any version of Perl your heart desires in a local directory of your choosing. You can also install multiple versions and easily swap them.

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#13

Post by hahainternet » Sat, May 18, 2013, 4:54 PM UTC

espadrine wrote: post #11

mhd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there should be some kind of changing of names. For a while it looked like it's another incremental step, if a big one. Which obviously requires running two implementations in parallel for a while -- similar to Python 2 and 3, or several operating systems and distros. But right now, especially once Perl development really picked up, it might be time to "divorce" the two languages. It seems more like Algol60 v…

Perl5 users won't switch to Perl6 because they're working on Perl5 code and don't want to change their habits. Non-Perl devs won't switch to Perl6 because the P word scares them. So, yes, changing the name might be a good idea. And making an enjoyable web-based tutorial.

> Perl5 users won't switch to Perl6 because they're working on Perl5 code and don't want to change their habits.

I will.

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#14

Post by hahainternet » Sat, May 18, 2013, 4:57 PM UTC

prollyignored wrote: post #8

I was a Perl lover once. And now it seems I understand the haters. Just don't use Perl . The language seems fine, productive, even sublime at first but you will encounter some horrible design features. Just read the following, http://markmail.org/message/h2spyi5za4qheuft -- Perl's data structure serialization is leaky. Thought you made an int ? Whoa ... serialized as a string. http://blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2013/…

I downvoted you because of

a) The poor formatting of your post as a stream of conciousness

b) The condemnation of a language based on a single relatively minor bug

c) The unsupported assertions and unrelated criticisms like not enabling strict by default

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#15

Post by prollyignored » Sat, May 18, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

hahainternet wrote: post #14

prollyignored wrote: post #8

I was a Perl lover once. And now it seems I understand the haters. Just don't use Perl . The language seems fine, productive, even sublime at first but you will encounter some horrible design features. Just read the following, http://markmail.org/message/h2spyi5za4qheuft -- Perl's data structure serialization is leaky. Thought you made an int ? Whoa ... serialized as a string. http://blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2013/…

I downvoted you because of a) The poor formatting of your post as a stream of conciousness b) The condemnation of a language based on a single relatively minor bug c) The unsupported assertions and unrelated criticisms like not enabling strict by default

I use points as I am a bad writer.

* Don't use $a, $b for variable names, affecting sort

* Don't use each for iterating over hashes

* Global effects of ..

* next operator is dynamic

    sub foo() {
        next; #breaks while loop
    }

    while(defined (my $e = shift @items)) { # "0", 0 is false
       foo();
    }

* http://www.perl.com/doc/FMTEYEWTK/versus/perl.html

* Exception model based on $_ and $@

* print "$foo's fun!";

* `use constant` is broken

* my $a, $b ... declares a global $b. Not DWIM at all.

These language features are not worth the debugging time.

Regarding c) I am not a fan of use strict. If the community's priority is introducing more features like "my $_" than sane exception handling, I don't want to be a part of it and I won't recommend that language to my boss or the next FOSS project.

Did I mention XS bugs ?

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#16

Post by kamaal » Sat, May 18, 2013, 5:37 PM UTC

prollyignored wrote: post #15

hahainternet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted you because of a) The poor formatting of your post as a stream of conciousness b) The condemnation of a language based on a single relatively minor bug c) The unsupported assertions and unrelated criticisms like not enabling strict by default

I use points as I am a bad writer. * Don't use $a, $b for variable names, affecting sort * Don't use each for iterating over hashes * Global effects of .. * next operator is dynamic sub foo() { next; #breaks while loop } while(defined (my $e = shift @items)) { # "0", 0 is false foo(); } * http://www.perl.com/doc/FMTEYEWTK/versus/perl.html * Exception model based on $_ and $@ * print "$foo's fun!"; * `use constant` is…

You seem to have to magically figured out the art of creating software without bugs.

Its time for you to produce your magical programming language and claim your fields medal.

Till then, there are people who are using and will be using Perl with endlessly growing user base for three decades.

As a side note and talking of bugs, Perl easily has the best testing culture in the entire open source language scenario.

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#17

Post by mhd » Sat, May 18, 2013, 5:49 PM UTC

aduitsis wrote: post #12

mhd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there should be some kind of changing of names. For a while it looked like it's another incremental step, if a big one. Which obviously requires running two implementations in parallel for a while -- similar to Python 2 and 3, or several operating systems and distros. But right now, especially once Perl development really picked up, it might be time to "divorce" the two languages. It seems more like Algol60 v…

You can use perlbrew to install any version of Perl your heart desires in a local directory of your choosing. You can also install multiple versions and easily swap them.

We deploy to a RHEL server where the stock Perl is 5.8.8. Sure, migrating that to a perlbrew/local::lib setup with up-to-date CPAN modules would be really nice, but would require some major testing, and right now nobody has the time for that. Never change a running system sigh...

But hey, generally it's not a big hassle, from a programmer's perspective that version ain't that outdated. About the only thing I really miss is "//="...

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#18

Post by peteretep » Sat, May 18, 2013, 6:00 PM UTC

prollyignored wrote: post #15

hahainternet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted you because of a) The poor formatting of your post as a stream of conciousness b) The condemnation of a language based on a single relatively minor bug c) The unsupported assertions and unrelated criticisms like not enabling strict by default

I use points as I am a bad writer. * Don't use $a, $b for variable names, affecting sort * Don't use each for iterating over hashes * Global effects of .. * next operator is dynamic sub foo() { next; #breaks while loop } while(defined (my $e = shift @items)) { # "0", 0 is false foo(); } * http://www.perl.com/doc/FMTEYEWTK/versus/perl.html * Exception model based on $_ and $@ * print "$foo's fun!"; * `use constant` is…

What modern language do you use that doesn't also have a laundry list of warts?

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#19

Post by latk » Sat, May 18, 2013, 6:01 PM UTC

alberth wrote: post #3

Only 82 more minor releases until Perl 6 will be available.

Almost ;-) The current perl version is 5.018000, so that would take 982 releases until the numbering scheme breaks down. Of course, Perl v-strings can have elements of INT_MAX each, but I doubt such high numbers would ever be used, for back-compat reasons.

Re: Perl 5.18.0 is now available

#20

Post by chromatic » Sat, May 18, 2013, 6:05 PM UTC

Su-Shee wrote: post #4

Perl 6 releases itself monthly for YEARS now. http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ http://rakudo.org/downloads/rakudo/

To be fair, so does Perl 5. Perl 5.18.0 happens to be the yearly major release.

To my knowledge, Rakudo hasn't reached the point where its developers call any Star (runtime plus libraries) release a "major release" of the sort that users ought to use in the wild for a year or more.