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Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

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Re: Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

#12
post #9

[deleted]

> The entire economic approach of some countries has been based, or at least heavily influenced by, on a paper that no one had bothered actually checking.

Er, no. Reinhart and Rogoff's paper was published in 2010. The debate of keynesian stimulus vs. austerity vs. non-interventionism is much, much older than that.

Re: Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

#13
post #6

So what is the alternative to lowering "consistently high public debt"? Monetize it? Default on it? Debt in itself is not a problem if the growth rate is the same or decreasing as a proportion of the economy. At the current rate, some obligations would have to be forfeited, either to the direct creditors, or to those promised social services. Strangling the economy further with high taxes only makes the problem worse…

I'm Portuguese, and the amount of people here that think that "if the financial crisis in the US didn't happen we wouldn't have a problem" is mind-boggling. Because apparently having your debt rise from 50% to 70% of GDP in 7 years without recessions or crisis (2000-2007) [1] and running a budget deficit that never went below 3% [2] isn't a sign of a problem... [1] http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=ds22a34k…

Portugal entered the euro, and a couple of decades of economic stagnation while companies switch from producing cheap labor shoes to high value added goods was to be expected. Portugal did surprisingly well up until 2007, with small but consistent GDP growth and was clearly on the road to being a more evolved economy. 2007 saw a growth of 2.4%, by all measures good for an economy in transition.

During the transition, some debt accumulation would be tolerable. Levels up to 120% were, prior to Reinhardt Rogoff considered acceptable.

As such, the view that the timing of the financial crisis was particularly unfortunate for Portugal is, in my view, entirely correct.

Re: Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

#14
post #9

[deleted]

It's not such a big deal; imposing debt and austerity on others existed millenia before some paper. :)

I liked Graeber's recent _Debt: The First 5000 Years_. If you can't easily obtain/afford it, IIRC the author recommended just downloading it from somewhere. (http://www.amazon.com/Debt-First-5-000-Years/dp/1933633867)

BTW, this quote from the article is telling: "But because he was a lowly graduate student asking favors of some of the most respected economists in the world, he got no reply, until one afternoon..." You know, the "favor" of doublechecking their dangerously buggy academic product for them.

Maybe that was a terrible exaggeration from the journalist. Who knows what happened in this particular case? But in contrast, Graeber, who couldn't even be considered for a professor job in North America (but gets jobs elsewhere, like the London School of Economics), said: "What collegiality means in practice is: 'He knows how to operate appropriately within an extremely hierarchical environment.' You never see anyone accused of lack of collegiality for abusing their inferiors. It means 'not playing the game in what we say is the proper way.'" (http://chronicle.com/article/A-Radical-Anthropologist-Finds/...)

(Afterwards, Graeber tweeted, "in the interview I added "you can be accused of 'lack of collegiality' for being too nice." That is, too nice to students." One reason the dismal pseudoscience gets even little things wrong.)

Re: Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

#16
The solution is for authors to routinely publish the datasets behind their research.

Unlikely though, for the same reason that Herndon didn't contact Reinhart and Rogoff about the error. Academics are even more interested in getting attention than they are in getting to the truth.

Which is why this episode is more likely to discourage publication of data than encourage it.

Re: Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

#17
post #8
post #6

So what is the alternative to lowering "consistently high public debt"? Monetize it? Default on it? Debt in itself is not a problem if the growth rate is the same or decreasing as a proportion of the economy. At the current rate, some obligations would have to be forfeited, either to the direct creditors, or to those promised social services. Strangling the economy further with high taxes only makes the problem worse…

The real problem is by the time a county has big debts there so used to deficit spending defaulting = austerity. The US borrowed enough money to avoid a significant economic melt down. Long term avoiding pain from borrowing is not sustainable be cause you always want lower taxes and faster growth. For austerity to work before your forced into it you need a multi decade commitment to gradual spending reductions or sig…

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/monitor/beware...

It only really takes a few years. We went through "painful" austerity in Canada. Both at the federal level and provincial level. This left everyone hating the federal finance minister and the premier of the province. In the end, the environment was cleaner, the debt problem was tackled, and everyone had a job. (when you compare the late 90's to the early 90's)

Here's another story about austerity: http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-01-20/opinions/35438...

(but yes, it's after a war, so that somehow makes it inexplicably different? People still debate this)

Re: Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

#18
You would be surprised how many things that exist around you are based around faulty models based on incorrect data - that's the problem with higher dimensional fields like economics and finance - it's hard to separate cause and effect and extract principal signals for an arbitrary phenomena, without getting bogged down in correlation hell.

You have been warned - the further fields get from pure mathematics and isolated systems - the faultier they must become, and the harder they are to verify (although in this case - it was trivially easy - but then again IIRC the paper wasn't published in a peer-reviewed journal).

Hence, before accepting X new fact in higher dimensional fields - do your own verification first.

Also - who on earth thought austerity was ever a good idea?

If you can afford to borrow - and consumer spending is dead - bring it back. The US should load up on as much debt as possible - I'd love to get cash at a 1-2% interest rate - it's a freaking awesome deal.

Re: Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

#19

Impressive that his two professors took 1 whole month to finally believe him, even though the article gives the impression that the error was obvious (a bad formula). Summary of the article: http://tldr.io/tldrs/5171189e1a18dac804000170/meet-the-28-ye...

It sounds like they grilled him until they got co-authorship for a paper with a with an uber high impact factor.

Re: Grad Student Who Shook Global Austerity Movement

#20
post #9

[deleted]

Naa.

The paper came out in 2010, after much of the austerity debate had already crystallised, and got attention almost entirely in the US, which hasn't really implemented austerity. (No, the sequester really doesn't count.) Nor did the paper argue strongly in favour of austerity; the authors actually are pro-stimulus, and Rogoff in particular was very concerned over the effects of the Fiscal Cliff.

Actual austerity has mostly happened in Europe, where nobody really cared about the paper. The average German voter has no idea who Reinhart and Rogoff are, and he certainly doesn't care that some model showed that further loans to Greece might be correlated with somewhat lower Greek growth in the future; he's sick of the bailouts, thinks Greeks are congenitally lazy, and is afraid Germany won't get their loans back. In fact, what has actually happened in Greece is pretty much what Reinhart and Rogoff warned against! (Debt loads get too high, bond markets freak, growth craters. It's the most obvious explanation for the correlation Reinhart and Rogoff noted, and it's pretty much exactly what happened in Europe.)

Meanwhile, the actual spreadsheet errors changed their results from growth of -0.1% in high-debt countries to 0.2%; an inconsequential change. Nor is this surprising; the reason nobody looked too closely at the numbers is because they agree broadly with every other paper and model out there.

TL;DR: Reinhart and Rogoff caused austerity? Lolwut?

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