Whose Water Is it Anyway? • Hacker News Board

Re: Whose Water Is it Anyway?

#11

Post by rayiner » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 5:32 AM UTC

dspeyer wrote: post #9

rayiner wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The water rights situation in the U.S. is a total disaster. You have California, Nevada, Arizona, etc, fighting over ever more overstrained output from the Colorado river. Even in wet places like Florida you're having to dig deeper and deeper to hit water (1,000+ feet in some cases). Aquifers in the western midwest are threatened by fracking. And in the midst of potential scarcity, the law is a total mess. Basically,…

Last estimate I saw for a Columbia River to Los Angeles pipeline was $150G. Expensive, but not out of reach for the US government. And there's enough water there to take care of the southwest for a long time. The nasty things will happen across national borders. Like, when things in California get tight, will Mexico continue to receive any of the Colorado? Or worse, what about the Upper Ganges Aquifer, already shrink…

The PNW will secede before they let those evil Californians have any of their water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_(independence_movement...

Re: Whose Water Is it Anyway?

#12

Post by jmathai » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 7:22 AM UTC

igul222 wrote: post #6

I don't understand why water is such a scarce resource: the price of water will never increase past the cost of desalinizing seawater with energy from, say, solar panels.

Desalinization is extremely expensive to the point that we can't yet rely on salt water.

The water crisis affects developing nations who can and will be taken advantage of (referred to here as slavery). As the article explains, as water continues to be a scarce resource there becomes more and more power in controlling it.

I think wars over oil are bad but the ethical questions around water are significantly more fundamental.

Re: Whose Water Is it Anyway?

#13

Post by rogerbinns » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 7:42 AM UTC

igul222 wrote: post #6

I don't understand why water is such a scarce resource: the price of water will never increase past the cost of desalinizing seawater with energy from, say, solar panels.

Don't forget transmission costs too since not everywhere is by the coast. I live in a California coastal town that has spent 20 years just to come up with a project plan. They are currently doing an environmental review because it turns out that pumping concentrated brine back into the ocean can have detrimental effects. Read all about it at http://www.scwd2desal.org/

There are other problems too. For example my city has had excellent success in water conservation. However the fixed costs of the water infrastructure haven't changed so they have to keep increasing the water rates as consumption decreases, in order to maintain revenue covering the costs. (Arguably the fixed cost of the bill should be higher and the consumption charge should be lower to better reflect reality but that falls hardest on the poorer households and would discourage conservation by the larger consumers.)

I also recall reading somewhere about other unexpected consequences of conservation - sewage pipes had significantly reduced lifespans because effluent was more concentrated resulting in greater corrosion.

Re: Whose Water Is it Anyway?

#14

Post by noonespecial » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 10:15 AM UTC

Jach wrote: post #4

rayiner wrote: post #2

Water rights are going to be the defining political issue of our time, and the fundamental challenge of our generation. No resource is more necessary and less replaceable. Our reaction to this challenge is going to define our political and social institutions. We will either meet that challenge, or let the usual petty squabbling and infighting and opportunism get in the way and the fallout will either kill or enslave…

This seems obviously false to me for several reasons. Are you being serious? Perhaps I'm ignorant and you can enlighten me, but I think the water rights situation in the United States is pretty clear-cut.

Its not entirely clear whether you'll even be able to catch the rain that lands on your own roof. Clear as mud (which you might only own the dust part of).

http://www.treehugger.com/clean-water/water-wars-in-wild-wes...

Re: Whose Water Is it Anyway?

#15

Post by dspeyer » Sat, Apr 13, 2013, 3:37 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #11

dspeyer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last estimate I saw for a Columbia River to Los Angeles pipeline was $150G. Expensive, but not out of reach for the US government. And there's enough water there to take care of the southwest for a long time. The nasty things will happen across national borders. Like, when things in California get tight, will Mexico continue to receive any of the Colorado? Or worse, what about the Upper Ganges Aquifer, already shrink…

The PNW will secede before they let those evil Californians have any of their water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_(independence_movement...

Not let, sell. PNW needs to export something.

And the idea that Seattle and Spokane have a strong enough cultural bond to secede together is just silly.