Live data from Hacker News

Work Hard and Play Just Enough

andrewcross.ca

11–20 of 46 posts

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#11
I always laugh at people who say how many hours they worked per day like it's an achievement of any sort.

Anybody can 'sit' at their desk for 10 hours that says absolutely nothing about you or your job performance but hey you can brag about how many hours you worked for.

I will come in focused, do all the work I have to do while you bullshit with co-workers or talk about doing something for the 10th time without doing anything and leave on time.

That what sucks about engineering/start-ups, if person is mediocre all they have to do is stay in the office the longest and even if they can't beat the quality and output of an engineer who does 9-5 that's overlooked by 'hey I 'worked' for 10 hours!'

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#12
Over time, I have discovered that I generally work in one of 3 modes:

Mode 1: Unproductive. Like many corporate people. Busy, even completing transactions, but when you get right down to it, not producing much product.

Mode 2: Productive. Writing software. Testing. Talking to users. Crossing stuff off to-do lists. Making progress and feeling good about it.

Mode 3: Transcendence. Being "in the zone". "Seeing" things I hadn't seen before. Making discoveries that leapfrog previous struggles and implementing them quickly. Being ecstatic understanding new possibilities from the things I'm building right now.

I'm usually in Mode 2 (I've discovered tricks to quickly identify and get out of Mode 1.) I LOVE to be in Mode 3, but often don't have as much control getting there when I'd like.

For me, Mode 3 is usually very early in the morning or late at night. I often lose all awareness of time and space and don't leave Mode 3 until I'm spent.

I'd guess I am: Mode 1, 10%. Mode 2, 80%. Mode 3, 10%.

When you're in Modes 1 or 2, you think about things like Work/Life Balance, work hours & conditions, and work habits. When you're in Mode 3, you don't think about much of anything except what you're working on.

If you're building a startup, you should expect to be in Mode 3 quite a bit (certainly more than my 10%). Sure, there's lots of transactions to conduct, but if you want to disrupt, you have to pay your dues in Mode 3.

In Mode 3, expect to miss meals, family, friends, maybe even baths. You can worry about those things when you return to the real world.

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#13
post #2

That’s my line. It isn’t a balanced life, but historically, it gives me the best chance to succeed. And since I’m going for a home run, that’s the line I need to walk. I guess the important question to answer is: why are you going for a "home run"? Is it because your life-consuming ambition, the only way you'll ever feel accomplished, is by having a bank account with a LOT of digits in it? Is it because you have a bu…

Fair question.

For me, I'm going for a home run because I think it will allow me to have the biggest impact on the world. I was living in Chile for 6 months last year and have seen what my company (a p2p marketplace for trips planned by locals) could do globally. That worldwide impact is the driving force.

What it isn't is a money or peer pressure play. My first startup is actually set to double in revenue this year (to low-mid 6 figures) and I barely touch it. The money thing will come, whether I go for a home run or not.

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#14

I always laugh at people who say how many hours they worked per day like it's an achievement of any sort. Anybody can 'sit' at their desk for 10 hours that says absolutely nothing about you or your job performance but hey you can brag about how many hours you worked for. I will come in focused, do all the work I have to do while you bullshit with co-workers or talk about doing something for the 10th time without doin…

I fully agree with you. If you aren't being productive, you aren't working. The number of hours isn't a badge of honor, but the number of productive hours is.

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#15
post #12

Over time, I have discovered that I generally work in one of 3 modes: Mode 1: Unproductive. Like many corporate people. Busy, even completing transactions, but when you get right down to it, not producing much product. Mode 2: Productive. Writing software. Testing. Talking to users. Crossing stuff off to-do lists. Making progress and feeling good about it. Mode 3: Transcendence. Being "in the zone". "Seeing" things I…

Have any tips for getting out of Mode 1?

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#16
post #8

I appreciate the gesture of being a devil's advocate to the work-life balance posts but the hyperbole of "9am-5am" is hurting your case, you're giving others a straw man to argue against. A 70 hour work week is not actually that unreasonable. You wake up at 8AM, get to work by 9AM, work until 7PM, and then head out with another 5 hours still before you need to go to sleep and still get a solid 8 hours of rest. Do tha…

what will increase your odds of success is to work smarter and have better hourly output than your competition (whatever is appropriate measure of 'better' in your case). Working long hours should be your last resort not your first how to succeed. Yes I do understand that longer hours compensate lower hourly output but I would argue that you should find area where your talent lies. If you are in top 5% in given field that is enough competitive advantage without putting more then regular hours. IMNSHO Reason why most startups fail, there are not enough hours in a day to compensate for a lack of innate ability to do job.

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#17

I've been at the office until the wee hours of the morning. I don't know how people can still write coherent code at that point. My mind starts tripping under its own weight at the four-five hour mark. I usually can't make it past 2 or 3 hours without a break. Those times when I was hacking away like I was doing something so important that the world just couldn't wait for it... well I'm pretty sure I was at that offi…

"I don't know how people can still write coherent code at that point." - they don't and that is a problem

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#18
I think this article hits the nail on the head. Yes, you can build a business and do the whole "only work 20 hours a week" or whatever thing. But can you "hit a home run" doing that? I kinda doubt it.

If you want the home run, if you want to make it to the big leagues, you have to sacrifice (unless you just plain get lucky). And even on the "luck" front, I'm reminded of the old saw "the harder I work, the luckier I get".

Now it is a fair question to ask "why is it so important to you to hit the metaphorical home run"? To which I can only say "it's complicated". And, ultimately, my reasons and my motivations are very personal, and I don't see why I (or any other entrepreneur) should have to justify our drive and ambition to anybody else.

That said, for me personally, it comes down to a combination of factors, including:

1. Desire for financial independence (aka "fuck you money"). I don't need to be Larry Ellison rich, but I'd like to have enough money in the bank to where I don't have to worry about money anymore. I'd like to be able to buy a nice house, a nice car, do some things for some family and friends, and have enough money left to where I can spend my time traveling, reading, playing with geeky shit and never have to worry about "what happens if my car breaks down" or whatever.

2. General sense of accomplishment. I'll admit it, I grew up pretty much dirt poor in the rural South, and I have a chip on my shoulder about people who seem to think that they are better than me because they have more money. I want to prove to (myself|the world|those assholes|whoever) that I am just as capable as anybody. The digits in the bank account don't really matter (other than as in (1) above), but they are a means of keeping score. I want a high-score just to prove a point and because I'm very competitive. It also involves both proving the people wrong who have ever doubted me, AND justifying the faith of the people who believed in me. I have friends, family, etc., that I want to prove something to, so I can feel like I justified their support and belief.

3. Causes / Philanthropy. There are causes and initiatives I believe in very strongly, and I'd like to be in a position to do more to advance those causes. I want to be able to do things like: donate money to libertarian advocacy groups, support libertarian candidates for office, etc.; donate money to support education (especially STEM education) for underprivileged people in areas like where I grew up; donate money to groups like the EFF, FSF, etc.

4. Creating something I always wished existed. I have a vision in my head of the kind of company I want to work for, and that I think (some) other hackers would want to work for. No company seems to exist exactly like what I envision, so my plan is to create it. Being large, profitable and sustainable would give us access to resources to do cool things. It sucks to have all sorts of ideas, but to lack the resources to try to act on them. Ideally I'd like to run a company that can support intrapreneurship, identify employees with really awesome ideas, nurture and incubate those initiatives, and - if they succeed - spin them out as separate companies or whatever.

5. Angel investing. If I make it big, I'd definitely want to help the next round of entrepreneurs by doing some angel investing.

There are other reasons as well, but that starts to get more personal, and I'm not going to go into that here. But I think that is the basic gist of the thing.

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#19
post #2

That’s my line. It isn’t a balanced life, but historically, it gives me the best chance to succeed. And since I’m going for a home run, that’s the line I need to walk. I guess the important question to answer is: why are you going for a "home run"? Is it because your life-consuming ambition, the only way you'll ever feel accomplished, is by having a bank account with a LOT of digits in it? Is it because you have a bu…

That's a totally fair question. My answer is in my other comment, here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5532632

Re: Work Hard and Play Just Enough

#20
post #15
post #12

Over time, I have discovered that I generally work in one of 3 modes: Mode 1: Unproductive. Like many corporate people. Busy, even completing transactions, but when you get right down to it, not producing much product. Mode 2: Productive. Writing software. Testing. Talking to users. Crossing stuff off to-do lists. Making progress and feeling good about it. Mode 3: Transcendence. Being "in the zone". "Seeing" things I…

Have any tips for getting out of Mode 1?

I recommend blocking out time to concentrate. I find lead time is definitely required to get progress from mode to mode. If you've got a meeting or something else scheduled every 20 minutes your brain won't lock in. If you're in a corporate environment (like me) you need to work hard on this and keep your meetings blocked together or keep your calendar free. Knock out the morning admin and tasks and you have all afternoon and evening to work and progress. This applies to code but also for phone calls - once you start, try not to stop until your mind needs a break. Keep calling, keep pitching, keep coding.

As for mode 3 - it can be tough to get to Mode 3 in a corporate setting because often you've not been given the freedom to think in a way that can lead to Mode 3, but it does happen. For me I just need some runway of time to settle in.

Post reply on HN