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The Startup Side Project Bubble

davidhauser.com

11–20 of 56 posts

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#11
post #8

A major reason that people do only what's required to get by in their "day job" and tool away on startups is that the promotion is dead. You don't advance in the workplace by any means except changing jobs or doing your own thing. Companies don't promote on merit anymore. So if you pour your heart into your job, you get nothing for it. You're better off pouring your heart into side projects-- even if they don't turn…

A major reason that people do only what's required to get by in their "day job" and tool away on startups is that the promotion is dead. You don't advance in the workplace by any means except changing jobs or doing your own thing. Companies don't promote on merit anymore. So if you pour your heart into your job, you get nothing for it. You're better off pouring your heart into side projects

Bingo! What's the point in going "above and beyond the call of duty" for a dayjob employer, when they aren't going to recognize you for it, compensate you for it, or acknowledge it in any way? Of course, this isn't true of all employers. Sometimes people do get recognized and compensated for merit... see the recent post about the guy at Google who got $100MM. But most people know if they work for a company where merit is rewarded or not. And if you don't work in one of those, and you have some ambition, the rational choice is to work on a startup.

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#12
post #6
post #4

I disagree with most of the points. 1. People usually start a side project because they are unhappy at work. If they are unhappy, they are unlikely already giving their best 2. On another note, a side project often gives your a great deal of satisfaction, accomplishment, control and responsibilities that you wouldn't get in your daily job. This balances your morale and will make you perform better both at your daily…

I find it hard to believe that everyone starting a side project is unhappy at work, I don't think the 2 are related. If you are unhappy at work you should leave. I am all for doing stuff on the side so as not to get bored, to learn and 50 other things but then let's not call it a startup and a business. An entrepreneur takes calibrated risks and makes things happen when others can't or won't.

An entrepreneur takes calibrated risks and makes things happen when others can't or won't.

Sounds exactly like the person who plows every cent of otherwise disposable income into a startup, while risking their employment by reserving a portion of their mental/creative energy for their own thing, instead of whatever shitty product their employer is churning out.

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#13
There are several companies that started off as side projects across an array of industries: apple, spanx, and buffer for example.

The diluted talent pool is not because of part-time entreprenuers. Based on your logic, they wouldn't leave their job anyway. It's because of over funded full-time entreprenuers.

And since you mentioned basecamp, here's what employee #1 of 37 Signals thinks of the topic: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1764-the-natural-evolution-fr...

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#14
post #8

A major reason that people do only what's required to get by in their "day job" and tool away on startups is that the promotion is dead. You don't advance in the workplace by any means except changing jobs or doing your own thing. Companies don't promote on merit anymore. So if you pour your heart into your job, you get nothing for it. You're better off pouring your heart into side projects-- even if they don't turn…

I clicked the up-arrow soooo hard.

Businesses MUST focus on incentivizing their capable employees correctly. If they did, there would be far less of these side-projects which double as portfolio support.

I know a few people who are very well-incentivized inside of the company they work for. They are very entrepreneurial, but they've been bought-off by very smart managers. When they retire, they will have done very well indeed without ever having to launch anything.

The problem for companies has become that it is so easy for many more people to create a startup on a shoestring budget that you have to incentivize many more people than you used to. What's a company to do? I'm not sure. I think this frustration is at the heart of David's grievance.

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#16
post #6
post #4

I disagree with most of the points. 1. People usually start a side project because they are unhappy at work. If they are unhappy, they are unlikely already giving their best 2. On another note, a side project often gives your a great deal of satisfaction, accomplishment, control and responsibilities that you wouldn't get in your daily job. This balances your morale and will make you perform better both at your daily…

I find it hard to believe that everyone starting a side project is unhappy at work, I don't think the 2 are related. If you are unhappy at work you should leave. I am all for doing stuff on the side so as not to get bored, to learn and 50 other things but then let's not call it a startup and a business. An entrepreneur takes calibrated risks and makes things happen when others can't or won't.

I find the converse hard to believe, why would someone who is happy at work create a side project (unless they are just a tinkerer or are scratching a personal itch)?

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#17
I can't agree with any of this article.

>> It’s a problem because side projects create a talent bubble of people who aren’t fully engaged and are just doing enough at their "real" or full-time job to get by until their startup is up and running. This means their productivity suffers at their full-time job, an expense the employer ends up paying. The side project owners justify it by assuming it will only be for a short period of time.

Here's a surprising fact: almost no one is "fully engaged" at work. They're thinking about camping or football or shopping. We don't owe our employers anything but our time and productivity. At least if my coworker is working on a side project I know she's learning things that will make her better at her job.

>> And actually, we need to be honest. Not everyone is an entrepreneur. Part of being one is accepting the risk of starting your own company and taking the leap to be committed full time. It’s not good for startups or for companies to have employees that are partially engaged in both and committed to neither.

Because side projects never succeed and full time startups never fail. (Dell, Craigslist, Bingo Card Creator, Twitter, and Facebook.)

>> Here’s a quick tip: there are plenty of those already. If you do want to start a company, work on building a real business, not a side idea that’s hoping to be the next Twitter/Facebook/Instagram combination or a better version of Basecamp.

Says the guy whose companies include another Survey Monkey and yet another credit card payment app. (Note: Chargify is a good product, but it's in a crowded market.) Plus, Basecamp is nice, but it's not ideal for all kinds of projects. I'd be very happy if somebody made a new Basecamp that did a better job with software projects.

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#18

There are several companies that started off as side projects across an array of industries: apple, spanx, and buffer for example. The diluted talent pool is not because of part-time entreprenuers. Based on your logic, they wouldn't leave their job anyway. It's because of over funded full-time entreprenuers. And since you mentioned basecamp, here's what employee #1 of 37 Signals thinks of the topic: http://37signals.…

And since you mentioned basecamp, here's what employee #1 of 37 Signals thinks of the topic: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1764-the-natural-evolution-fr...

I could not agree more fully with this. This bit here really sums it all up in my opinion:

But the idea that you need to quit your job to do it right is misguided. If you quit your job, you shift everything. You don’t gain time, you lose it. You put a shot clock on your business. You box yourself into a position where you have to profit immediately or the whole thing goes under. You’ve got to make it work now or give up forever.*

Hanging on to your day job gives you a longer period of time to build your idea. It lets you give a sustained effort over time. There’s no get rich quick option. You build it slowly, one day at a time.

Yes, you need to find time to do both your side business and your normal gig. But there’s always enough time if you spend it right. Instead of watching TV or playing Grand Theft Auto, work on your idea. Instead of going to bed at 10, go to bed at 11.

That's exactly it... at Fogbeam Labs we're not trying to get rich quickly, but as long as the founders have dayjobs and we keep our burn rate low, we have - essentially - an indefinitely long runway. This gives us more time to experiment, learn, and iterate, without having to panic in fear of having to shut the whole thing down, if the first few experiments don't go the way we expected.

I keep thinking about what pg said in the "How not to die" essay:

http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html

If you can just avoid dying, you get rich. That sounds like a joke, but it's actually a pretty good description of what happens in a typical startup. It certainly describes what happened in Viaweb. We avoided dying till we got rich.

and

When startups die, the official cause of death is always either running out of money or a critical founder bailing. Often the two occur simultaneously. But I think the underlying cause is usually that they've become demoralized. You rarely hear of a startup that's working around the clock doing deals and pumping out new features, and dies because they can't pay their bills and their ISP unplugs their server.

That's our mindset... as long as we can keep going, we will eventually "break through" and make it.

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#19
post #8

A major reason that people do only what's required to get by in their "day job" and tool away on startups is that the promotion is dead. You don't advance in the workplace by any means except changing jobs or doing your own thing. Companies don't promote on merit anymore. So if you pour your heart into your job, you get nothing for it. You're better off pouring your heart into side projects-- even if they don't turn…

A major reason that people do only what's required to get by in their "day job" and tool away on startups is that the promotion is dead. You don't advance in the workplace by any means except changing jobs or doing your own thing. Companies don't promote on merit anymore. So if you pour your heart into your job, you get nothing for it. You're better off pouring your heart into side projects Bingo! What's the point in…

I agree with both api and mindcrime - and I did an MBA in Tech.

Although I'm sure there are several companies that do incentivize correctly - there's a growing awareness of creating an "intrapreneur" spirit and opportunities, though in most companies it's just that - empty talk.

Re: The Startup Side Project Bubble

#20
post #5

I'm sorry, but this whole article is based on a completely unfounded premise - that being the premise that you're not "committed" to your startup unless you've quit your dayjob and are working on the startup fulltime. But there's no basis for asserting that, and it is - quite simply - not true. It's not "shooting yourself in the foot" to work on a startup while working a dayjob, it's called "funding your startup with…

You are missing the point, I am not saying you should raise money. I bootstrapped my company and am very proud of it. It is hard to argue that spending 40+ hours in a week on something other than you startup shows you are committed to your startup. You are committed to making money and then working on your startup. I have personally invested in many employee's startups but that does not change the fact that trying to…

How many hours per week need a startup take?
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