The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver • Hacker News Board

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#11

Post by Murkin » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 11:32 AM UTC

Hermel wrote: post #9

relix wrote: post #3

I noticed Bitcoin's most fervent supporters are far removed from reality. They think the regular person in the street cares that "the man" can track his purchases in the supermarket, or the beer he bought in a bar. They don't want to pay taxes. They think Cypriotic people will surely flock from shaky banks to an even more shakier currency and put all their live savings in Bitcoin, because it'll be safe. It's so hard…

> It's so hard to actually get bitcoins This is something that can change. The question is, would it be enough to make people use Bitcoin? Also, if it is "only" used as an investment, that would still be a huge success.

How can it being used only as an investemt be a huge success ?

Lets just redo the Tulip mania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania)

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#12

Post by wcoenen » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 11:33 AM UTC

Ryan_Shmotkin wrote: post #2

Anyone knows if there is a way to "short" bitcoins ?

You can do this on http://bitfinex.com.

But be careful about how much you trust any bitcoin service. Bitcoinica, another margin trading platform, was wildly popular but existed for only 6 months; they had to shut down after several hacks and people lost funds.

Also, the main way to get non-bitcoin funds into these kinds of services is via mtgox redeemable codes, but those won't be available anymore after the 10th of April because of legal concerns.

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#13

Post by codesuela » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 11:41 AM UTC

People keep predicting that but then it might go down after a large dump of Bitcoins and rises to new heights. Don't know what to say, this article has no substance at all. It is based on a possibly made up anecdote. I guess Bitcoin is just one of those things that divides the tech community. Crazy idealistic cyberpunks and BTC skeptics.

Disclaimer: I am a believer

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#14

Post by meric » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 11:44 AM UTC

relix wrote: post #8

jaggederest wrote: post #6

Never underestimate the power of illicit substances and activities to power adoption. Right now I suspect the bulk of the current spike in bitcoin prices is related to currency controls or the fear thereof now that Cyprus is going down the drain.

That doesn't make sense. If the only reason is to get away from the Euro, why buy bitcoins, a very volatile, cutting-edge currency, when you can just as easily (or more easily actually) buy any other currency such as dollars, or swiss francs, and your savings will actually be safe, as opposed to bitcoin that could lose 20% of its value overnight.

Most of the people who are getting away from euro are going to other currencies; It only takes a small proportion going to bitcoin to affect its price.

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#15

Post by Hermel » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 11:45 AM UTC

relix wrote: post #8

jaggederest wrote: post #6

Never underestimate the power of illicit substances and activities to power adoption. Right now I suspect the bulk of the current spike in bitcoin prices is related to currency controls or the fear thereof now that Cyprus is going down the drain.

That doesn't make sense. If the only reason is to get away from the Euro, why buy bitcoins, a very volatile, cutting-edge currency, when you can just as easily (or more easily actually) buy any other currency such as dollars, or swiss francs, and your savings will actually be safe, as opposed to bitcoin that could lose 20% of its value overnight.

Moving from EUR to USD or to CHF does not make much of a difference. Western national banks don't allow for much fluctuation and if one of them starts printing, the others follow. Bitcoin is a currency that does not correlate with them, so from a diversification point of view, Bitcoin is the better choice for you than buying USD.

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#16

Post by Ryan_Shmotkin » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 11:49 AM UTC

Hermel wrote: post #15

relix wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make sense. If the only reason is to get away from the Euro, why buy bitcoins, a very volatile, cutting-edge currency, when you can just as easily (or more easily actually) buy any other currency such as dollars, or swiss francs, and your savings will actually be safe, as opposed to bitcoin that could lose 20% of its value overnight.

Moving from EUR to USD or to CHF does not make much of a difference. Western national banks don't allow for much fluctuation and if one of them starts printing, the others follow. Bitcoin is a currency that does not correlate with them, so from a diversification point of view, Bitcoin is the better choice for you than buying USD.

You can put money into realestate, gold, gov-bonds and hundred other places that don't have 3x monthly fluctuation.

And people in cyprus are not trying to protect their spare change, its their whole savings. Would you put your life savings in bitcoin ?

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#17

Post by Hermel » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 11:55 AM UTC

Murkin wrote: post #11

Hermel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's so hard to actually get bitcoins This is something that can change. The question is, would it be enough to make people use Bitcoin? Also, if it is "only" used as an investment, that would still be a huge success.

How can it being used only as an investemt be a huge success ? Lets just redo the Tulip mania ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania )

In uncertain times, there is big demand for storing value. Whereas tulips are a horrid store of value (they rot, anyone can grow them, are not divisible, etc), bitcoins are an excellent store of value. It is divisible, transferrable and easy to hide. Very similar properties have made gold a huge success as an investment vehicle. There are other goods similar to gold. For example, there are 20 billion CHF worth of 1000-CHF bills in circulation, most of them outside Switzerland. They are not used for purchases - they are used to preserve wealth. If bitcoin becomes one of those assets used to preserve wealth, its price can easily jump to 1'000 EUR per coin, giving it a similar capitalization as Swiss 1000 CHF bills.

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#18

Post by glomph » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 12:08 PM UTC

relix wrote: post #3

I noticed Bitcoin's most fervent supporters are far removed from reality. They think the regular person in the street cares that "the man" can track his purchases in the supermarket, or the beer he bought in a bar. They don't want to pay taxes. They think Cypriotic people will surely flock from shaky banks to an even more shakier currency and put all their live savings in Bitcoin, because it'll be safe. It's so hard…

Aren't the most fervent supporters of most things pretty removed from reality?

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#19

Post by philhippus » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 12:31 PM UTC

The fact is BTC is a currency and is currently operating as such. There will be price corrections of course but it is already established and its primary trend is up.

As a currency trader of ten years I see this energy-backed means of exchange reaching astronomical levels if the network does not suffer any major catastrophe.

What looks like a bubble here may well be an attempt to establish a base. $100 seems like a reasonable psychological base level after it is broken. From there, with greater adoption and acceptance, $1000 is targetable.

Re: The Bitcoin and the Taxi driver

#20

Post by jaggederest » Sun, Mar 31, 2013, 6:30 PM UTC

relix wrote: post #8

jaggederest wrote: post #6

Never underestimate the power of illicit substances and activities to power adoption. Right now I suspect the bulk of the current spike in bitcoin prices is related to currency controls or the fear thereof now that Cyprus is going down the drain.

That doesn't make sense. If the only reason is to get away from the Euro, why buy bitcoins, a very volatile, cutting-edge currency, when you can just as easily (or more easily actually) buy any other currency such as dollars, or swiss francs, and your savings will actually be safe, as opposed to bitcoin that could lose 20% of its value overnight.

There are capital controls in place in Cyprus, it's illegal to move more than a certain amount of money out of the country. Thus you can't just move your money to CHF or USD.

Clearly, if you need to move illicit funds around, Bitcoin is a reasonable way to do that.