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One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

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Re: One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

#11

Post by maxharris »

wwwtyro wrote: post #7
maxharris wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many months or years does that process take? Morally speaking, the judgement of a patient (and the physician he has chosen) must not be impeded even for an instant. The FDA renders individual judgement on these matters irrelevant, and the result is often death and slowed medical progress.

I imagine these people are desperate enough to find other means to acquire an antibody that blocks CD47. I wonder what quasi- or il- legal means are available to them? Care to speculate? Edit: perhaps a set of crowd-sourced, extremely explicit instructions about how to manufacture, purify, and test such antibodies would be a start. With such a set of instructions, they might be able to find experts to help them under…

Well, you could try ordering from Fischer or any of the usual research supply places out there, but they will not ship to a non-institutional address.

Even theft isn't an option here, unless you're somehow certain that a particular lab has exactly the right antibody. (In my lab, we often have trouble keeping track of that for ourselves...)

And don't forget that you need to be able to maintain sterile conditions, and have whatever other reagents you need to dilute things, etc.

Re: One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

#12

Post by roc »

maxharris wrote: post #8
wwwtyro wrote: post #3

Some heart-wrenching comments from the page: "Husband and father of 3, age 31, high grade spindle cell sarcoma, stage 4 with mets- help! nuclearcouple@hotmail.com or find me (spouse) on fb, Heather Cimino in Fort Myers, Fl, willing to travel anywhere, just save my husband!" "my wife has tumor that are killing her will you hurry up and get this sorted - is there anyway one can volunteer for a trial tim.parry@xtra.co.n…

There has got to be a way to address this need. Yes, there is. Fight for the right of each individual to follow his best judgement in regard to all matters pertaining to his own life. (If someone doesn't know enough to make the call, he knows enough to choose a physician who can.) Right now, timely experimental treatments are basically outlawed. What good is it to say that there's an FDA procedure to get around the c…

The problem is that lay people have essentially no ability to distinguish between potential 'last shots'. And exemptions will invite snake-oil salesmen.

It can be frustrating, but the rules weren't created in some blind bureaucratic power-grab. They're responses to actual problems that existed in their absence. They aren't without their downsides, but they remain better than the alternative on balance.

Re: One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

#13

Post by [deleted] »

wwwtyro wrote: post #7
maxharris wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many months or years does that process take? Morally speaking, the judgement of a patient (and the physician he has chosen) must not be impeded even for an instant. The FDA renders individual judgement on these matters irrelevant, and the result is often death and slowed medical progress.

I imagine these people are desperate enough to find other means to acquire an antibody that blocks CD47. I wonder what quasi- or il- legal means are available to them? Care to speculate? Edit: perhaps a set of crowd-sourced, extremely explicit instructions about how to manufacture, purify, and test such antibodies would be a start. With such a set of instructions, they might be able to find experts to help them under…

[deleted]

Re: One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

#14

Post by wwwtyro »

maxharris wrote: post #11
wwwtyro wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine these people are desperate enough to find other means to acquire an antibody that blocks CD47. I wonder what quasi- or il- legal means are available to them? Care to speculate? Edit: perhaps a set of crowd-sourced, extremely explicit instructions about how to manufacture, purify, and test such antibodies would be a start. With such a set of instructions, they might be able to find experts to help them under…

Well, you could try ordering from Fischer or any of the usual research supply places out there, but they will not ship to a non-institutional address. Even theft isn't an option here, unless you're somehow certain that a particular lab has exactly the right antibody. (In my lab, we often have trouble keeping track of that for ourselves...) And don't forget that you need to be able to maintain sterile conditions, and…

Wait - are you saying people could (were it legal) simply order this stuff from a company? Can you give me some kind of reference for this? If so, I could see people reaching out and finding others capable of placing the order.

Re: One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

#15

Post by wwwtyro »

roc wrote: post #12
maxharris wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has got to be a way to address this need. Yes, there is. Fight for the right of each individual to follow his best judgement in regard to all matters pertaining to his own life. (If someone doesn't know enough to make the call, he knows enough to choose a physician who can.) Right now, timely experimental treatments are basically outlawed. What good is it to say that there's an FDA procedure to get around the c…

The problem is that lay people have essentially no ability to distinguish between potential 'last shots'. And exemptions will invite snake-oil salesmen. It can be frustrating, but the rules weren't created in some blind bureaucratic power-grab. They're responses to actual problems that existed in their absence. They aren't without their downsides, but they remain better than the alternative on balance.

They aren't without their downsides, but they remain better than the alternative on balance.

That's not a credible claim. Tell that to either of the two people that left those comments.

Sure, there's risks inherent with experimental drugs, but these people are dying or losing loved ones. They don't give a damn, and none of us has any right to stop them from taking those risks with their own persons. Their bodies are their own, they are not yours.

And frankly, the snake-oil salesman claim strikes me as little more than FUD. People can get recommendations from multiple MDs before making up their minds.

Re: One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

#16

Post by maxharris »

wwwtyro wrote: post #14
maxharris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could try ordering from Fischer or any of the usual research supply places out there, but they will not ship to a non-institutional address. Even theft isn't an option here, unless you're somehow certain that a particular lab has exactly the right antibody. (In my lab, we often have trouble keeping track of that for ourselves...) And don't forget that you need to be able to maintain sterile conditions, and…

Wait - are you saying people could (were it legal) simply order this stuff from a company? Can you give me some kind of reference for this? If so, I could see people reaching out and finding others capable of placing the order.

Here's CD47, conjugated to a fluorophor (when you have a cell covered in a conjugated antibody, it fluoresces when exposed to laser light - this is done so that an instrument called a flow cytometer can identify cells).

http://www.biolegend.com/percp-cy55-anti-human-cd47-4338.htm...

Of course, to get CD47 depletion, you'd probably want an antibody that isn't conjugated (functional grade):

http://www.ebioscience.com/resources/in-vivo-use-of-antibodi...

Also, some more help on the terminology: CD47 (and most, if not all molecules that fall under the Cluster of Differention [CD] nomenclature) vary on a per-species basis. So an antibody that targets CD47 in mice is not going to stick to human CD47. "Anti-" in this context means that the antibody in question will stick to specific molecule in the species that comes after the "anti-".

Note what it says on the bottom of the page. That's there because of regulations.

Re: One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

#18

Post by rubyrescue »

wwwtyro wrote: post #15
roc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that lay people have essentially no ability to distinguish between potential 'last shots'. And exemptions will invite snake-oil salesmen. It can be frustrating, but the rules weren't created in some blind bureaucratic power-grab. They're responses to actual problems that existed in their absence. They aren't without their downsides, but they remain better than the alternative on balance.

They aren't without their downsides, but they remain better than the alternative on balance. That's not a credible claim. Tell that to either of the two people that left those comments. Sure, there's risks inherent with experimental drugs, but these people are dying or losing loved ones. They don't give a damn, and none of us has any right to stop them from taking those risks with their own persons . Their bodies are…

The history of snake-oil salesmen is well documented. http://www.authentichistory.com/1898-1913/2-progressivism/8-...

Re: One Drug to Shrink All Tumors

#20

Post by wwwtyro »

rubyrescue wrote: post #18
wwwtyro wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't without their downsides, but they remain better than the alternative on balance. That's not a credible claim. Tell that to either of the two people that left those comments. Sure, there's risks inherent with experimental drugs, but these people are dying or losing loved ones. They don't give a damn, and none of us has any right to stop them from taking those risks with their own persons . Their bodies are…

The history of snake-oil salesmen is well documented. http://www.authentichistory.com/1898-1913/2-progressivism/8-...

I'm not denying their existence.
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