Physicists just saying "we found it!" and re-re-re-checking existing data for hmmm... last year i suppose. And processing LHC (which already stopped) data will take a lot more time. They found "evidence" (five standard deviations) - but it's slightly more than detection threshold - and because of that they still unsure.
Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
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Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#12Just in time for the new Pope, they confirm the existence of the particle that gives Mass! Someone up there having a joke, obviously.
I'm glad you want that way with the joke rather than a take on the popularised media term, "god particle".
Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#13Another science news that will be disconfirmed in 1-2 days?
No, this one is actual science, this time it's not from some dubious guy with a philosophical agenda.
"Finding" the Higgs is a prolonged statistical process involving tons of data that need to be crunched and the experiment itself also needs to run for a long time in order to yield this data. Physicists have been talking about a strong signal indicating the existence of the Higgs for quite a while now, so its existence has not really in question for some time. The problem with continuous and statistical analyses then becomes: when do you actually announce you found the damn thing? That's why it has been announced several times (and probably will be a few times more).
But it's real.
It would have been surprising, but way more exciting, if the Higgs didn't exist.
Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#14Radio waves were described by their co-discoverer in 1888 as "an interesting laboratory experiment" with "no useful purpose" whatsoever. - Wikipedia entry for Higgs boson
Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#15The physics involved is fascinating, although a true appreciation of what a Higgs Boson is would take years (i.e. most of a PhD). The organisation of such a vast data-processing task has surely brought about many discoveries in "big-data" and parallel computing that are not directly related to the discoveries in physics. Much like the research into the magnets that power the accelerator has led to new MRI machines. T…
Part of me is rather skeptical that the giant mound of assumptions about hardware, software, and physics backing this discovery is correct. However, I have a lot more faith in them then I do in most human endeavors and I fundamentally don't understand what's going on. Which I find to be an odd feeling.
Your skepticism is exactly what science is all about!
I find it to be a wonderful feeling.
I've loved watching the tête à tête between the 24-hour news and this extremely important science community. More than once, extraordinary claims have been made and completely overblown by the media. Meanwhile, these talented scientists have remained levelheaded, critical, and extremely careful in their announcements. Watching the FTL[0] discussions, for example, was just so much fun. It actually gave me more faith in humanity to see so many people fact checking each other and challenging each other to prove something in civilized ways.
[0] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light_neutrino_anom...
Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#16The physics involved is fascinating, although a true appreciation of what a Higgs Boson is would take years (i.e. most of a PhD). The organisation of such a vast data-processing task has surely brought about many discoveries in "big-data" and parallel computing that are not directly related to the discoveries in physics. Much like the research into the magnets that power the accelerator has led to new MRI machines. T…
To those who forgot, the web as we know it was also pretty much invented at CERN [1] so anyone who is against "science for science's sake" is indeed missing a major point. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_World_Wide_Web#1...
I agree with your general point, but your example is doubtful.
Gopher existed before WWW and filled the same niche. It wasn't as elegant, but it (or something else) would have grown up without WWW.
The reason, in my cynical opinion, why the web took over from Gopher was not that it was technically superior, but that it allowed people to add pictures to their documents.
Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#17With big science news like this, it's always best to go to the source[0] to avoid sensationalism. Of note, is the following statement which isn't getting repeated much in the mainstream news sources: " It remains an open question, however, whether this is the Higgs boson of the Standard Model of particle physics, or possibly the lightest of several bosons predicted in some theories that go beyond the Standard Model.…
There are two separate questions here.
The first question, "is the Higgs mechanism how elementary particles get their mass?" is now essentially answered. Whether or not the Higgs boson is a single particle or part of a hierarchy of related bosons is almost irrelevant to the answer of this question.
The second question is "is there new physics at the TeV scale?" If there is, then there are additional bosons related to the Higgs in some models like supersymmetry. However, it is not required that there be additional bosons or that that they be easily measured. Other new particles might be more accessible. On the other hand, there might not be any new physics at LHC energies at all. This question is what will take time to answer.
Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#18The physics involved is fascinating, although a true appreciation of what a Higgs Boson is would take years (i.e. most of a PhD). The organisation of such a vast data-processing task has surely brought about many discoveries in "big-data" and parallel computing that are not directly related to the discoveries in physics. Much like the research into the magnets that power the accelerator has led to new MRI machines. T…
Part of me is rather skeptical that the giant mound of assumptions about hardware, software, and physics backing this discovery is correct. However, I have a lot more faith in them then I do in most human endeavors and I fundamentally don't understand what's going on. Which I find to be an odd feeling.
Their assumptions are validated by everything else working and showing up as expected
Still, I have a similar feeling, that there may be some hidden 'tuning' to make things match, or some assumptions or values that have been erroneously determined or set.
Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#19With big science news like this, it's always best to go to the source[0] to avoid sensationalism. Of note, is the following statement which isn't getting repeated much in the mainstream news sources: " It remains an open question, however, whether this is the Higgs boson of the Standard Model of particle physics, or possibly the lightest of several bosons predicted in some theories that go beyond the Standard Model.…
Science is pretty boring to most people, who aren't interested in science per se but only want news bites for use in casual conversation. Media distorts scientific claims in order to appeal to a wider audience and make more money.
God Particle Found! News at eleventy eleven!eleventy!
Re: Physicists Say They Have Found A Higgs Boson
#20Yet still all the newspapers worldwide have a Pope in their frontpage. What a frustrating coincidence.