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EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

reuters.com

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Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#11
post #6

I should disclose that I haven't shopped on eBay in many years. Here's why, and why it's relevant: I have a terrible experience on eBay. The prices are great until the excessive shipping is added. Until payment I can generally get a response from the seller but after that it's like I don't exist. Then there are the outright scams. And please note, I'm a _buyer_. I shudder to think that I should ever be a seller on eB…

I tried selling with eBay and didn't have a whole lot of luck. I never actually received a bid and felt like I was paying fees to become a target of phishing scams...

Without hyperbole, I'd rather set up shop on a blanket on the sidewalk than do business with eBay.

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#12
post #6

I should disclose that I haven't shopped on eBay in many years. Here's why, and why it's relevant: I have a terrible experience on eBay. The prices are great until the excessive shipping is added. Until payment I can generally get a response from the seller but after that it's like I don't exist. Then there are the outright scams. And please note, I'm a _buyer_. I shudder to think that I should ever be a seller on eB…

I've had a completely different experience. I tend to buy "buy it now" items, particularly electronic items, regularly from ebay. I don't think in perhaps 7 or 8 years of regular ebay purchases (probably between 1 and 10 a month) I've had more than a few issues. Sometimes things get lost in the post (especially if the seller is based in China or Hong Kong), but they're often quite apologetic about it and often send another one if it never arrives.

It may be that in the past postage costs were hidden, but they've made it very clear now. The buyer pays the price + postage, both of which are clearly visible on the search page and repeated on the item and purchase page.

eBay is fantastic for small electronic components. If you need a couple of capacitors or a single (popular) chip, the price + postage is always considerably less than buying from a mainstream retailer (where £10+ postage for anything is the norm). My experience is in the UK, so elsewhere may be different.

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#13
post #6

I should disclose that I haven't shopped on eBay in many years. Here's why, and why it's relevant: I have a terrible experience on eBay. The prices are great until the excessive shipping is added. Until payment I can generally get a response from the seller but after that it's like I don't exist. Then there are the outright scams. And please note, I'm a _buyer_. I shudder to think that I should ever be a seller on eB…

I agree on pretty much everything you said (especially wrt: selling.. if you're not a medium-ish business with that as your function, you need your head examined if you decide to roll with ebay!)

That said, the whole "excessive shipping" thing is primarily used by unscrupulous sellers to skirt around ebay's fees. It also used to be used to appear higher in search results when sorted by price, until they started including shipping in that column. It's the reason you see a small widget like a laser pointer for a penny with 9.99 shipping.

You can report any listings like that and they'll get yanked for it.

And there's the little fact that the world's worst auction site and the world's worst payment provider are surgically joined at the hip..

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#14
I have run similar tests myself for a variety of clients.

Some end up with the same result as ebay; brand terms generate sales, but the incremental value of this is not worth the media spend.

For others, brand search advertising is a complete no brainer and they make a lot of money doing it.

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#15
post #6

I should disclose that I haven't shopped on eBay in many years. Here's why, and why it's relevant: I have a terrible experience on eBay. The prices are great until the excessive shipping is added. Until payment I can generally get a response from the seller but after that it's like I don't exist. Then there are the outright scams. And please note, I'm a _buyer_. I shudder to think that I should ever be a seller on eB…

Can I just bring up etsy here?

It seems to me that eBay's most dangerous competition is etsy along with perhaps Amazon's "sellers."

You have etsy eating most of eBay's "we make it ourselves" market and you have Amazon which lets people buy "new" goods cheaper with less hassle than the eBay/PayPal mess.

You also have Craigslist going after eBay local...

The only niche eBay really has right now is cheap Chinese/HK direct imports and goods which are borderline legal (and Amazon would likely pull, like knives).

If someone steals that market form them then they might be in real trouble. Even my mom who is in her 50s uses Amazon to sell used books instead of eBay - easier she says.

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#16
The problem with this kind of analysis is that it's to short-sighted. The main benefit of advertising has never been direct conversions. Rather, the main benefit is keeping the brand in people's minds, so that they'll be more likely to come to you in the future.

When Coke buys a commercial slot on a TV network, do they expect someone to say "Holy crap, I need to drink a Coke right now!", turn off their TV, and drive to the grocery store? Of course not. They're playing a longer game than that.

This is also why the PPC model for internet advertising is totally broken.

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#17
post #14

I have run similar tests myself for a variety of clients. Some end up with the same result as ebay; brand terms generate sales, but the incremental value of this is not worth the media spend. For others, brand search advertising is a complete no brainer and they make a lot of money doing it.

It really depends on the market. I've found that brand terms can convert really well if you can drive them to a targeted microsite or similar segmented area. Usually it means that the customer is far down the purchase funnel, a search for "washing machine" may be just research, "whirlpool washing machine" can mean the brand part of the decision is already made ("whirlpool duet" is even better).

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#18

Ironically, Google has been pushing brands way up in search for 4-5 years now, and it may come back to bite them. Many said it was due to brands being more profitable for Google, but long term it builds brands to the point of users bypassing Google. Ah the challenges of being both an 'impartial' judge of content and the world's largest ad engine. Another thing is the price, it has skyrocketed lately. What may have ma…

I think there is more to "Google and Big Brands" story than what you have mentioned.

1. "Google has been pushing brands way up in search for 4-5 years now" - True, but it's important to note this is not a result of Google deciding "let's promote brands", it's a result of Google's algorithm improving. Google looks at query chains, sees that people hit certain sites after a few unsuccessful broad searches, and thus improves the broad search rankings of those sites. It is no coincidence that a significant portion of these "certain sites" happen to be big brands, which leads to point 2.

2. Brand advertising creates affinity - As Eric Schmidt put it: "Brand affinity is clearly hard wired." People end up at brand sites at the end of query chains because they recognize them, they trust them more, or they are just more familiar with them.

3. Google has lots of Brand advertising space - A quick review of the numbers of any Big Brand's SEM program will show some really abysmal inefficiencies and totally unnecessary bias towards branded searches (that's another problem altogether.) But the point is, Big Brands don't care if they could turn off Paid Search Ads in some areas and get the same ROI through other channels, they want to buy ads to signal they are a big brand, to saturate your vision with their brand and create the above mentioned affinity and familiarity.

Thus the cycle continues and Google has nothing to worry about with regards to big brands lowering Paid Search spend.

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#19
Link to the actual research paper: http://conference.nber.org/confer/2013/EoDs13/Tadelis.pdf

(preliminary paper published and presented at the March 8 NBER "Economics of Digitization" Conference)

As a side note, you know an article (reuters) is dumbed-down linkbait when they don't even bother linking to the actual study they are referencing.

Re: EBay study questions value of Google's main ad service

#20

Link to the actual research paper: http://conference.nber.org/confer/2013/EoDs13/Tadelis.pdf (preliminary paper published and presented at the March 8 NBER "Economics of Digitization" Conference) As a side note, you know an article (reuters) is dumbed-down linkbait when they don't even bother linking to the actual study they are referencing.

> Results show that brand-keyword ads have no short-term benefits, and that returns from all other keywords are a fraction of conventional estimates.

The article on reuters completely ignores the keyword 'short-term'. Furthermore, if eBay had an actually viable competitor it would be fighting for those ads with every penny.

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