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Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

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Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#11

Post by jlgreco »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #7
knowtheory wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can claim that this is all pathos and that this action is not merited on the facts, but your sardoncism about collective action seems misplaced. I'll even agree that Heymann is unlikely to be fired, but to equate either TarenSK's suggestion or petition signing with a lynching is both unfair and unkind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kony_2012 Edit: In my opinion, a demand for someone to be fired shares the same social DNA as lynching. Driven by the same forces: an angry crowd demands that a scapegoat be punished to appease it.

Petitioning to have a government official fired is the same as trying to collect money to hire mercenaries?

This idea that people in the government are unfireable is a disease. If you fuck up in the public sector, you get sacked. Expecting the same of the government is not equivalent to torture and murder.

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#12

Post by corporalagumbo »

jlgreco wrote: post #11
corporalagumbo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kony_2012 Edit: In my opinion, a demand for someone to be fired shares the same social DNA as lynching. Driven by the same forces: an angry crowd demands that a scapegoat be punished to appease it.

Petitioning to have a government official fired is the same as trying to collect money to hire mercenaries? This idea that people in the government are unfireable is a disease. If you fuck up in the public sector, you get sacked. Expecting the same of the government is not equivalent to torture and murder.

Demonstrating a precedent for prudent scepticism about collective action on the Internet.

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#13

Post by jlgreco »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #12
jlgreco wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Petitioning to have a government official fired is the same as trying to collect money to hire mercenaries? This idea that people in the government are unfireable is a disease. If you fuck up in the public sector, you get sacked. Expecting the same of the government is not equivalent to torture and murder.

Demonstrating a precedent for prudent scepticism about collective action on the Internet.

Is the medium particularly important? Would you feel better if it were all organized with newletters over the postal system?

Or are you just afraid of collective action in general?

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#14

Post by chimeracoder »

danso wrote: post #10
driverdan wrote: post #9

I'm so sick of these useless White House petitions. Yes, they can bring a small amount of attention to issues but otherwise they accomplish nothing other than making people feel good for "signing" a petition. Has there been a single White House petition that resulted in anything other than an official comment?

The point of the petition system is to raise awareness and to create another line of feedback. Currently, the Constitution does not provide for action based on activity on petitions.whitehouse.gov. In the history of legislative and executive actions that have ever taken place, though, it's worth noting that many of them were spurred because of public awareness and outcry that preceded them. Does anyone here really th…

> Does anyone here really think that SOPA was indefinitely tabled because Congressmembers suddenly read the bill and had a change of mind? Or was it because their offices received more calls and emails in than they likely did in the run-up to the Iraq and Afghan wars combined?

Or, alternatively, because the executive branch believed it already had the authority the bill would have provided (since they shut down MegaUpload the very next day).

I'm very cynical about things like 'awareness', because it's all too easy for politicians and lobbyists, who think about these issues every day, to slip something else by eventually. Most of the policy changes that we deride today as regressive were themselves not a 'first attempt'.

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#15

Post by lancefisher »

driverdan wrote: post #9

I'm so sick of these useless White House petitions. Yes, they can bring a small amount of attention to issues but otherwise they accomplish nothing other than making people feel good for "signing" a petition. Has there been a single White House petition that resulted in anything other than an official comment?

I do see reference to the petitions in news stories though. When reporters write, "... and already well over 25,000 people have signed the petition to the White House..." I think it lends credibility to the story. If these petitions are good for nothing else, they stand as a monument to public outcry.

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#16

Post by danso »

chimeracoder wrote: post #14
danso wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the petition system is to raise awareness and to create another line of feedback. Currently, the Constitution does not provide for action based on activity on petitions.whitehouse.gov. In the history of legislative and executive actions that have ever taken place, though, it's worth noting that many of them were spurred because of public awareness and outcry that preceded them. Does anyone here really th…

> Does anyone here really think that SOPA was indefinitely tabled because Congressmembers suddenly read the bill and had a change of mind? Or was it because their offices received more calls and emails in than they likely did in the run-up to the Iraq and Afghan wars combined? Or, alternatively, because the executive branch believed it already had the authority the bill would have provided (since they shut down MegaU…

> I'm very cynical about things like 'awareness', because it's all too easy for politicians and lobbyists, who think about these issues every day, to slip something else by eventually. Most of the policy changes that we deride today as regressive were themselves not a 'first attempt'.

Ironically, I'm even more cynical than you. I don't think that politicians think about these issues every day...I think they think about the "big" hot-button issues (health care, taxes) and otherwise spend most of their time campaigning to stay in office... and that is why the SOPA protest worked...SOPA would've sailed through considering it's extremely wide bipartisan support...but it's not because the politicians were in a backroom scheming about it. All it takes is a few politicians who agree with the lobbyists; the rest will go along with a given issue as long as there's no political fallout...because there is always political fallout in voting against an ally.

Once people started e-mobbing the offices en masse, then the just-go-with-it majority realized there was political fallout. And for better or worse, that legislation and virtually any similar legislation in the future, will not be seen as benign. That is a huge hurdle for lobbyists to overcome.

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#17

Post by chimeracoder »

danso wrote: post #16
chimeracoder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone here really think that SOPA was indefinitely tabled because Congressmembers suddenly read the bill and had a change of mind? Or was it because their offices received more calls and emails in than they likely did in the run-up to the Iraq and Afghan wars combined? Or, alternatively, because the executive branch believed it already had the authority the bill would have provided (since they shut down MegaU…

> I'm very cynical about things like 'awareness', because it's all too easy for politicians and lobbyists, who think about these issues every day, to slip something else by eventually. Most of the policy changes that we deride today as regressive were themselves not a 'first attempt'. Ironically, I'm even more cynical than you. I don't think that politicians think about these issues every day ...I think they think ab…

> And for better or worse, that legislation and virtually any similar legislation in the future, will not be seen as benign.

That's simply not the case, though. It's trivial for them (lobbyists) to disguise it as an unrelated issue, using whatever common bogeyman is popular at the time (drugs, child porn, terrorism).

This is exactly what has happened time and again.

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#18

Post by gyardley »

The comments on this post are depressing.

Whatever your attitude about the White House's goofy petition site, the efficacy of 'online activism', or what-have-you, Aaron Swartz's grieving partner thinks signing this petition will help shed a little light into the circumstances that led to his death.

Maybe she's right, maybe she's wrong, but either way, it only takes a second to do - so just go sign the damn thing.

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#19

Post by twoodfin »

Heymann saw Aaron as a scalp he could take. He thought he could lock Aaron up, get high-profile press coverage, and win high-fives from his fellow prosecutors in the lunchroom. Aaron was a way of reviving Heymann’s fading career. Heymann had no interest in an honest assessment of whether Aaron deserved any of the hell he was being put through.

Is there any evidence for any of this seeming mind reading?

Re: Steve Heymann Should Be Fired

#20

Post by newbie12 »

knowtheory wrote: post #5
corporalagumbo wrote: post #2

Why not lynch him? If we're going to do mob rule, we should do it right, no? Pitchforks and torches and all.

You can claim that this is all pathos and that this action is not merited on the facts, but your sardoncism about collective action seems misplaced. I'll even agree that Heymann is unlikely to be fired, but to equate either TarenSK's suggestion or petition signing with a lynching is both unfair and unkind.

Her call to action is really misguided. She's making it personal and obviously (and understandably) is out for blood. However, restrain is called for. Instead, she should be focused ONLY on getting public access to the materials under protective order. Once those docs are revealed, the process will take care of the rest if there really was misconduct.
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