Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago • Hacker News Board

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#11

Post by old-gregg » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 10:39 PM UTC

colins_pride wrote: post #7

rjurney wrote: post #4

Its not surprising that 60 years after the green revolution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution ) that we would have washed trace minerals from the soil of our most productive farmland, which produces most of our vegetables, resulting in them having lower mineral content. Its also not surprising that nitrogen fed fruits and vegetables bred for size and weight would be larger and so contain diluted mineral…

The issue here is that typical vegetables in your average supermarket have lower nutritional value than they did a generation ago, even though almost everything else in this society is getting better. A related issue is that processed foods are essentially a combination of corn, soybeans & sugar. Bottom line: people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. Growing your own vegetables i…

* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. *

Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#12

Post by rjurney » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 10:46 PM UTC

old-gregg wrote: post #11

colins_pride wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is that typical vegetables in your average supermarket have lower nutritional value than they did a generation ago, even though almost everything else in this society is getting better. A related issue is that processed foods are essentially a combination of corn, soybeans & sugar. Bottom line: people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. Growing your own vegetables i…

* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.

Its actually not hard to avoid corn syrup - if you cook :)

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#13

Post by Semiapies » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 10:48 PM UTC

old-gregg wrote: post #11

colins_pride wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is that typical vegetables in your average supermarket have lower nutritional value than they did a generation ago, even though almost everything else in this society is getting better. A related issue is that processed foods are essentially a combination of corn, soybeans & sugar. Bottom line: people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. Growing your own vegetables i…

* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.

Your understanding on the corn industry and subsidies is correct, but your complaint is questionable. You can avoid corn syrup by preparing your own food; when you rely on processed and pre-made food, you inherently have less control over the ingredients.

Going back to the topic, though, supermarket produce doesn't actually seem to contain any corn syrup.

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#14

Post by jrockway » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 11:01 PM UTC

old-gregg wrote: post #11

colins_pride wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is that typical vegetables in your average supermarket have lower nutritional value than they did a generation ago, even though almost everything else in this society is getting better. A related issue is that processed foods are essentially a combination of corn, soybeans & sugar. Bottom line: people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. Growing your own vegetables i…

* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.

Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them.

This is easy enough. Red Bull makes a cola with real sugar (expensive, but pretty tasty).

It's easy to avoid corn syrup when you don't buy processed foods. Go to your local organic market, and you'll find a whole store that contains no corn syrup what so ever. (A little bird told me that you can cook your own food, and if you don't want to add corn syrup, you don't have to.)

Anyway, corn syrup is really cheap, so that's why it is in really cheap food. Most people think of food and think "more", not "more nutrition", so that's why it's popular. But fortunately, there are plenty of (mainstream) places that will sell you better food, so there is no reason to complain.

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#15

Post by rjurney » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 11:03 PM UTC

old-gregg wrote: post #10

rjurney wrote: post #4

Its not surprising that 60 years after the green revolution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution ) that we would have washed trace minerals from the soil of our most productive farmland, which produces most of our vegetables, resulting in them having lower mineral content. Its also not surprising that nitrogen fed fruits and vegetables bred for size and weight would be larger and so contain diluted mineral…

Great comment! I like your attitude and thanks for the links. BTW we have tried your suggestion (growing our own) and after several attempts we're giving up: self-grown veggies have almost the same lack of taste as the manufactured ones from a supermarket: I suspect that's because the seeds themselves have been genetically ruined. Same with farmers markets: their vegetables are not only tasteless, but they're also ug…

You're not stuck! You just need heirloom seeds, and tons of compost and you can raise great tasting vegetables. Personally, I get my seeds from http://www.harrisseeds.com (no affiliation) but if you google, you can find many heirloom seed providers - just make sure to talk to them before you buy to make sure they will grow ok in your climate zone - heirlooms are less tolerant of climate ranges than the modern breeds.

As to the strawberries - you're not stuck there either! While personally I can't imagine anyone not preferring gigantor strawberries, to each his own. There is a different breed of species in Europe, you can get them here, they will grow here. I don't remember the exact species/breed, but an heirloom seed supplier will know. You can see the different species on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#16

Post by rudyfink » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 11:09 PM UTC

rjurney wrote: post #4

Its not surprising that 60 years after the green revolution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution ) that we would have washed trace minerals from the soil of our most productive farmland, which produces most of our vegetables, resulting in them having lower mineral content. Its also not surprising that nitrogen fed fruits and vegetables bred for size and weight would be larger and so contain diluted mineral…

> It doesn't take much land to grow a significant amount of food.

That made me think of this quote:

"When Eleanor Roosevelt did something similar in 1943, she helped start a Victory Garden movement that ended up making a substantial contribution to feeding the nation in wartime. (Less well known is the fact that Roosevelt planted this garden over the objections of the U.S.D.A., which feared home gardening would hurt the American food industry.) By the end of the war, more than 20 million home gardens were supplying 40 percent of the produce consumed in America. "

"The Food Issue", NY Times ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html )

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#17

Post by jules » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 11:10 PM UTC

old-gregg wrote: post #11

colins_pride wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is that typical vegetables in your average supermarket have lower nutritional value than they did a generation ago, even though almost everything else in this society is getting better. A related issue is that processed foods are essentially a combination of corn, soybeans & sugar. Bottom line: people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. Growing your own vegetables i…

* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.

Which products contain corn syrup? I didn't know that it existed until now, but I can't think of anything I eat that could contain corn syrup.

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#18

Post by rjurney » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 11:31 PM UTC

rudyfink wrote: post #16

rjurney wrote: post #4

Its not surprising that 60 years after the green revolution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution ) that we would have washed trace minerals from the soil of our most productive farmland, which produces most of our vegetables, resulting in them having lower mineral content. Its also not surprising that nitrogen fed fruits and vegetables bred for size and weight would be larger and so contain diluted mineral…

> It doesn't take much land to grow a significant amount of food. That made me think of this quote: "When Eleanor Roosevelt did something similar in 1943, she helped start a Victory Garden movement that ended up making a substantial contribution to feeding the nation in wartime. (Less well known is the fact that Roosevelt planted this garden over the objections of the U.S.D.A., which feared home gardening would hurt…

Which reminds me of the Atlanta Community Food Bank 'Plant a Row Campaign' to feed the hungry - http://www.acfb.org/projects/community_garden/plant_a_row/

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#19

Post by mark_h » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 11:38 PM UTC

jules wrote: post #17

old-gregg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.

Which products contain corn syrup? I didn't know that it existed until now, but I can't think of anything I eat that could contain corn syrup.

http://www.kingcorn.net/

(I haven't actually seen this yet, but the thread reminded me of the trailer)

Here's a direct link to the trailer, since the above link is a bit slow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCRwMMh9k8

Re: Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago

#20

Post by Semiapies » Sat, Mar 14, 2009, 11:39 PM UTC

jules wrote: post #17

old-gregg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.

Which products contain corn syrup? I didn't know that it existed until now, but I can't think of anything I eat that could contain corn syrup.

Well, there are two types of corn syrup - plain old "corn syrup" ala Karo, and high fructose corn syrup, which is a very common sweetener in processed foods.

(HFCS is also, for some reason, a bit of a nutritional boogeyman for a lot of people. There's no actual evidence that consuming X calories of it is any worse for people than consuming X calories of sugar or honey, but it's the new "dioxin" in some circles.)