The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy • Hacker News Board

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#11

Post by bgilroy26 » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 2:56 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #4

bitdiffusion wrote: post #2

More FUD about the disk space issue... yes - there is a large recovery partition and yes - you can delete it to free up space. Any yes - perhaps MS would have been better off if they included a USB drive for recovery purposes (although I imagine trying to walk the average user through "booting from USB" to restore their partition would be a support nightmare). This is just like the "omg - the desktop is gone and all…

When the best way to defend your new OS is to say "You can do this and pretend it's just like the old one!" you're probably in for a hard time. The surface pro seems to be a weird use case. It's going to come in at a price point where you could get a mid range Windows 7 laptop and an ipad mini or Nexus 7 for the same price and the combination of these 2 devices is probably more useful.

>When the best way to defend your new OS is to say "You can do this and pretend it's just like the old one!" you're probably in for a hard time.

Isn't this a best practice for UI overhauls? Whenever Google changes Gmail that's exactly how they handle it.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#12

Post by anarcticpuffin » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 2:57 PM UTC

My take on this is that the Microsoft's strategy for the Surface wasn't necessarily to sell a ton of Surface tablets and take out the iPad. I think it was to illustrate what Windows 8 brings to the table in terms of a hybrid tablet experience. This is similar to how Google had lackluster sales of their Nexus phone but it was a reference model of what you could do with Android. The Surface opens up some eyes to the idea of the "convertible laptop", which I think ultimately is how Windows 8 starts to make more sense. On any other configuration it's a clunky experience. Windows 8 is a poor tablet experience and a lame desktop, but as a convertible laptop it's actually quite enjoyable (in my opinion).

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#13

Post by rmrfrmrf » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 2:57 PM UTC

username3 wrote: post #8

My 64GB iPad has 57.1GB free space. That's 89%. 57.1 - 32 - 16 = 9.1; 9.1 / 16 = 0.56875; 16GB iPad has 9.1GB free space? That's 56%. My 16GB iPhone 5 has 13.4GB free. That's 83%. 13.4 + 16 + 32 = 61.4; 61.4 / 64 = 0.959375; 64GB iPhone 5 has 61.4GB free space? That's 95%. Edit: These calculations are not accurate. Read replies.

what?

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#14

Post by drzaiusapelord » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 2:58 PM UTC

bitdiffusion wrote: post #2

More FUD about the disk space issue... yes - there is a large recovery partition and yes - you can delete it to free up space. Any yes - perhaps MS would have been better off if they included a USB drive for recovery purposes (although I imagine trying to walk the average user through "booting from USB" to restore their partition would be a support nightmare). This is just like the "omg - the desktop is gone and all…

>although I imagine trying to walk the average user through "booting from USB"

How is that any worse than the current status quo of every Windows product ever sold? I'd say it would be harder to walk mom through deleting the restore files when she calls and says her tablet won't hold all her movies and music.

Let's just face it, MS made a very stupid decision. I could see this happening during the Vista era, but SSDs have been mainstream for YEARS now. Windows should have a smaller footprint and holy hell, should not have a 12-18gb cab file to restore from on limited storage.

Enthusiasts spend way too much time making Windows SSD friendly. We need to delete superseded update from winsxs, shrink the default massive page file, delete the hibernate file on machines that don't need it, manually stop superfetch/defrag even though windows is supposed to do this on its own, etc.

>And the "purpose of the surface pro"?

In the age of affordable ultrabooks, who knows. Essentially you're buying an ultrabook without a keyboard and with a super tiny screen.

That said, I love the RT product and if the RT tablet was $299 it would sell like hotcakes. Especially if the 'desktop mode' didn't exist. MS should never have bothered with the Pro line and instead should have made a proper android and ios competitor.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#15

Post by twoodfin » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 2:58 PM UTC

username3 wrote: post #8

My 64GB iPad has 57.1GB free space. That's 89%. 57.1 - 32 - 16 = 9.1; 9.1 / 16 = 0.56875; 16GB iPad has 9.1GB free space? That's 56%. My 16GB iPhone 5 has 13.4GB free. That's 83%. 13.4 + 16 + 32 = 61.4; 61.4 / 64 = 0.959375; 64GB iPhone 5 has 61.4GB free space? That's 95%. Edit: These calculations are not accurate. Read replies.

Some quick web searching suggests that the 16GB iPad has closer to 13.5GB free.

My guess is that iOS reserves more space on the larger devices for its own internal use.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#16

Post by jiggy2011 » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 2:58 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #6

jiggy2011 wrote: post #3

So, let's start a conversation that we've never had on HN before. How relevant will Microsoft be in 5 years?

Still more relevant than SAP or Oracle are today and both of those companies are doing pretty well...

True, although they do have the advantage of being somewhat more niche in that they aren't developing an entire platform from the ground up with all the costs that entails.

For example if MS loses enough ground with Windows in the consumer / small business space and begin to cede the enterprise desktop too does it make sense for them to continue development of Windows as a pure server platform?

Or will we start to see ports of stuff like Exchange,Active Directory,VS,SQL Server to other platforms?

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#17

Post by whatprojectnext » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 2:59 PM UTC

I actually thick the Surface Pro, or something like it, will be the future of home computing. It is exactly what everyone with an iPad, including myself, wishes the iPad would actually do. It is a tablet form factor with a the guts of a true computer and support for multiple peripherals. Dock it wherever and have a real computer system or take it on the go like any other tablet.

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#18

Post by nextparadigms » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 2:59 PM UTC

username3 wrote: post #8

My 64GB iPad has 57.1GB free space. That's 89%. 57.1 - 32 - 16 = 9.1; 9.1 / 16 = 0.56875; 16GB iPad has 9.1GB free space? That's 56%. My 16GB iPhone 5 has 13.4GB free. That's 83%. 13.4 + 16 + 32 = 61.4; 61.4 / 64 = 0.959375; 64GB iPhone 5 has 61.4GB free space? That's 95%. Edit: These calculations are not accurate. Read replies.

Yeah, when I see these comparisons about "percentage" of free space, I find them pretty ridiculous, because they compare the iPhone or the iPad at 16 GB, and say it's like 80%, and then the Surface at 64 GB.

If you're going to compare it like that then compare it with the 64 GB iPad, and then you get the free space to be almost 3x larger than on the 64 GB Surface (95% vs ~35%).

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#19

Post by simias » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 3:00 PM UTC

username3 wrote: post #8

My 64GB iPad has 57.1GB free space. That's 89%. 57.1 - 32 - 16 = 9.1; 9.1 / 16 = 0.56875; 16GB iPad has 9.1GB free space? That's 56%. My 16GB iPhone 5 has 13.4GB free. That's 83%. 13.4 + 16 + 32 = 61.4; 61.4 / 64 = 0.959375; 64GB iPhone 5 has 61.4GB free space? That's 95%. Edit: These calculations are not accurate. Read replies.

I'm a bit tired but your calculations make no sense to me. What are you getting at?

Re: The Microsoft Surface Isn’t Rosy

#20

Post by millerc » Fri, Feb 01, 2013, 3:01 PM UTC

Comparing sales between a phone you find in every shopping mall and could buy without knowing the differentiators, and a new class of device? That doesn't sound like an unbiased argument.