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Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

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Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#11

Post by ajkohn »

jacquesm wrote: post #7
ajkohn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the 'Don't be Evil' motto sets Google up for being a target for every little thing that someone thinks is wrong, whether or not it really is or not. What I think is meant by that motto is that they want to be a positive force, to use their technology and smarts for good. But of course, there's an ends justify the means argument and not everyone will have the same definition of good. The censorship stuff is ... s…

> The problem there is that Google knows that personalized experiences are better for users whether they know it or not. That's really problematic, that Google would even think that it knows better for its users whether they know it or not. Users know best what is best for them, period. No need to second guess.

When you ask someone whether they want their search results or ads to reflect their browse and search history they say no but when presented with the two options, users nearly always select the personalized version.

Remarketing works. It's not what people say, it's what they do.

And why shouldn't it be that way. I go to a local Peet's. They know my order now. Is that bad? Should I tell the barista to wipe my order history out of her memory?

I'm not saying there isn't a issue of privacy but the line is not where most think it is IMO. People are very willing to give out personal information in exchange for a chance to win a car in the local mall.

Taken in another direction: product. Users often don't express their real needs or can't identify them. One of the more interesting cases was the introduction of the mini-van. It tested miserably when they asked users. But Ford (I think it was Ford) decided to go ahead anyway and ... users wound up LOVING it.

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#12

Post by ajkohn »

jacquesm wrote: post #9
Goronmon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users know best what is best for them, period. No need to second guess. I disagree, there are plenty of examples were groups of users will make poor decisions about how they would like things to work. Gaming and security are two things that come to mind immediately.

That is not the right context here. You can pull in examples from all over the place but the context is if a user demands privacy over customized search results then google has no business second guessing that users decision.

I agree. If there really is this desire, then Google needs to honor it.

The Ads Preference manager is fairly straight-forward (www.google.com/ads/preferences) and more people who go there change settings rather than opt-out.

The full opt-out instructions (http://support.google.com/accounts/bin/answer.py?hl=en&a...) are a bit tougher. Should they make it easier to do this? Maybe.

But if you make it too easy, you get false positives and then people may become upset that Google isn't as useful as it once was not fully understanding that it was their own preference to do so, right?

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#13

Post by ajkohn »

iterationx wrote: post #10

Will we ever see a day where the word evil isn't in nearly every Google news headline? After 10+ years this is getting a little old.

Oddly, I agree. That's one of the reasons I wrote this piece. Though clearly I've used the evil word to tease people into reading it.

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#14

Post by ajkohn »

FWIW - the evil debate we're having here has once again sort of derailed us all from the main thesis which is ... Google wins when people use the Internet more.

So while some laugh at the self driving car initiative and see it as indulgent I see a company who is trying to unlock countless hours of time each day that is currently 'non-usable' from an Internet perspective.

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#15

Post by jacquesm »

ajkohn wrote: post #12
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not the right context here. You can pull in examples from all over the place but the context is if a user demands privacy over customized search results then google has no business second guessing that users decision.

I agree. If there really is this desire, then Google needs to honor it. The Ads Preference manager is fairly straight-forward (www.google.com/ads/preferences) and more people who go there change settings rather than opt-out. The full opt-out instructions ( http://support.google.com/accounts/bin/answer.py?hl=en&a... ) are a bit tougher. Should they make it easier to do this? Maybe. But if you make it too easy, you get…

See, that is exactly what I meant. That's not a 'full opt-out', that is just an opt out from having your search results personalized.

Tracking will merrily continue.

And if you fall for that what do you think the general public will do?

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#16

Post by iterationx »

ajkohn wrote: post #13
iterationx wrote: post #10

Will we ever see a day where the word evil isn't in nearly every Google news headline? After 10+ years this is getting a little old.

Oddly, I agree. That's one of the reasons I wrote this piece. Though clearly I've used the evil word to tease people into reading it.

Well if you agree cut it out. Its not clever its just annoying.

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#17

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

ajkohn wrote: post #11
jacquesm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem there is that Google knows that personalized experiences are better for users whether they know it or not. That's really problematic, that Google would even think that it knows better for its users whether they know it or not. Users know best what is best for them, period. No need to second guess.

When you ask someone whether they want their search results or ads to reflect their browse and search history they say no but when presented with the two options, users nearly always select the personalized version. Remarketing works. It's not what people say, it's what they do. And why shouldn't it be that way. I go to a local Peet's. They know my order now. Is that bad? Should I tell the barista to wipe my order hi…

I don't think people understand what Google is doing though. Your results may look very different once everybody understands the extent of Googles data collection.

This is very new territory still. I don't think we can predict what is going to happen if there is some massive repository of personal data that lives forever. So I'd rather we going at it with baby steps.

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#18

Post by ajkohn »

iterationx wrote: post #16
ajkohn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly, I agree. That's one of the reasons I wrote this piece. Though clearly I've used the evil word to tease people into reading it.

Well if you agree cut it out. Its not clever its just annoying.

Point taken. But you don't get to speak to those who think Google is evil without getting them to read it first.

For me the ends justified the means. Of course you may disagree and simply find it to be an annoying type of pandering.

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#19

Post by ajkohn »

jacquesm wrote: post #15
ajkohn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. If there really is this desire, then Google needs to honor it. The Ads Preference manager is fairly straight-forward (www.google.com/ads/preferences) and more people who go there change settings rather than opt-out. The full opt-out instructions ( http://support.google.com/accounts/bin/answer.py?hl=en&a... ) are a bit tougher. Should they make it easier to do this? Maybe. But if you make it too easy, you get…

See, that is exactly what I meant. That's not a 'full opt-out', that is just an opt out from having your search results personalized. Tracking will merrily continue. And if you fall for that what do you think the general public will do?

Well, using both the links above (though I botched the first link to ad preferences) you can opt-out of the the remarketing/display cookie and the search cookie.

For those that get to the Ad Preferences page the stats are pretty interesting.

http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/clarifying-valleywag-comments/

The general public when presented with this doesn't seem to have such a drastic reaction.

Re: Google's Evil Plan is Simple (and not so evil)

#20

Post by ajkohn »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #17
ajkohn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you ask someone whether they want their search results or ads to reflect their browse and search history they say no but when presented with the two options, users nearly always select the personalized version. Remarketing works. It's not what people say, it's what they do. And why shouldn't it be that way. I go to a local Peet's. They know my order now. Is that bad? Should I tell the barista to wipe my order hi…

I don't think people understand what Google is doing though. Your results may look very different once everybody understands the extent of Googles data collection. This is very new territory still. I don't think we can predict what is going to happen if there is some massive repository of personal data that lives forever. So I'd rather we going at it with baby steps.

It's interesting. Sometimes the argument is that people are more savvy than we give them credit for and then it's that they don't really understand.

I'm not saying you're doing this now (not at all), but I do see people trying to have it both ways when talking about this issue.

The thing is, I'm old so I worked offline before the Internet. The personal information that is accessible offline is ... incredible, even to this day. It's what has powered the direct marketing revolution for decades.

So while I don't think people understand the details of how things work online I think they have an intuitive sense that the same way they get targeted offline is what happens to them online.

Facebook is actually letting people marry the offline and online information which I find super intriguing yet goes relatively unnoticed.

And I'm still shocked that we willingly present ID when we buy something with a credit card since we're not really required to do so.

Going slow wouldn't be a bad thing but I actually think we've been doing that already.

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