Antigua could also become the next Cuba.
Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
11–20 of 41 posts
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#12I don't see how this would actually work. If you set up a pirate website in Antigua, congratulations, good luck competing with the million other ones that already exist. How does it hurt the U.S. in any significant way to go from a million to a million and one? On top of that, it's not like the U.S. is going to sit around and allow it. Expect payment processors to be pressured not to process payments for the service,…
The difference is that it's not a pirate website. It's WTO sanctioned, thus a legal offer. This would make things harder to shut down, since it's hard to argue that it should be shut down because it's a pirate site.
They have no qualms about ignoring the WTO's judgement. I'm not sure why they would quietly comply with it now. The USTR (you know, the people who negotiated ACTA) seem likely to be very against this sort of thing.
What they will do, however, remains an open question.
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#13I don't see how this would actually work. If you set up a pirate website in Antigua, congratulations, good luck competing with the million other ones that already exist. How does it hurt the U.S. in any significant way to go from a million to a million and one? On top of that, it's not like the U.S. is going to sit around and allow it. Expect payment processors to be pressured not to process payments for the service,…
AllOfMP3 was quite popular in its time because it was "legal" even though it didn't pay copyright holders.
They were legal and they did pay ROMS who can legally license any content from any artist as stated by international agreements and Russian law. This is how radio stations work but nothing prevents a website from getting the same deal as long as ROMS agrees to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Organization_for_Multi...
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#14I don't see how this would actually work. If you set up a pirate website in Antigua, congratulations, good luck competing with the million other ones that already exist. How does it hurt the U.S. in any significant way to go from a million to a million and one? On top of that, it's not like the U.S. is going to sit around and allow it. Expect payment processors to be pressured not to process payments for the service,…
The difference is that it's not a pirate website. It's WTO sanctioned, thus a legal offer. This would make things harder to shut down, since it's hard to argue that it should be shut down because it's a pirate site.
WTO sanctioning wouldn't prevent MPAA, or even the US government labeling it as a pirate website. US probably could ban importing IP from Antigua, thus making downloading stuff from there as illegal as conventional pirating.
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#15The article is very sensationalist. WTO penalties are meant to be a proportional penalty, not some sort of carte-blanche.
The sensationalist aspect here is the idea that Antigua might set a far below-market price on intellectual property items. Ah, we'll charge $0.000000000000000000000000000001 per song/movie! Functionally unlimited songs and movies for $1! They'll have to negotiate since we now have a legal way for people go get nearly-free, unlimited American content! Except that the world doesn't work that way.
If the United States did something wrong and Antigua was awarded $21M worth of American IP as retaliation, then they should get in the ballpark of $21M. I'm sure no one in the US government is buying the "we can set any price we want and become a legal pirate haven if you don't give us what we want" argument. No one at the WTO would either. It makes a great story - especially since many of us hate the way that content industries in the US act. But the reality is that the WTO's decision is meant to be a proportional penalty to the wrong that has been done, not some vindictive nonsense.
I mean, sometimes countries would rather pay than change their laws - not because they're trying to be mean, but because they just have different values or fears. For example, let's say that Germany thinks that beer has to be made with German hops. There's nothing wrong with American hops. They're perfectly safe. Maybe they taste like crap, but snobbery isn't a valid reason to exclude a product. But maybe the Germans would rather pay. It happens. Further, let's say that Koreans are afraid that fans that don't auto-shutoff after 30 minutes will suck the air out of a room and kill people. Science doesn't back that up, it's not a valid health and safety issue, and if they want to exclude these non-auto-shutoff fans, they need to pay. Where this happens in the real world are on the edges where science is often murky. Is Pesticide A ok? Is additive B safe? Similarly, it happens with things like gambling where the US wants to regulate it and doesn't feel it can exert authority over foreign-companies (even if it sets regulations for them).
None of this is meant to give anyone carte-blanche to force issues. It's meant to keep things equal. Well, if you're going to favour your domestic industries and harm ours by $x, we get to favour our domestic industries and harm your's by the same $x plus maybe some reasonable penalty amount (I don't actually know about penalty amounts) - with "x" being determined by the WTO.
Antigua had been arguing to the WTO that the US harmed it in the billions. The WTO awarded them $21M. It sounds more like, "we're going to try to find a loophole because they mostly disagreed with us" than it does legitimate. Really, it sounds like the type of negotiation posturing that no one buys.
EDIT: I think the important thing to think about here is how you would want things settled in other cases - a consistant standard of practice - and not just in terms of nations. A lot of us here disliked Apple's harsh stand against Android. We don't mind proportional responses, many of us don't mind paying for quality products or components at a fair price. Likewise, we tend to dislike the "they made a tiny infraction! burn everything that is their's!" disproportionate response. Here we have "the US blocked Antiguan gambling sites in a discriminatory manner". The response shouldn't be, "destroy the entire American IP industry until they submit!"
And it's important to note that these standards should (ideally) be applied equally. If we don't wish disproportionate responses against Actor A, we shouldn't wish it against Actor B. The world might be less interesting in such a stable system, but I think we all benefit. We benefit when small wrongs are treated as small wrongs. We suffer when random wrongs carry random penalties.
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#16They're going to suddenly discover al-Qaeda operating in Antigua.
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) Movie streaming service is going to fall over in two seconds if you can't do regional caching of popular data. 2) Service is not going to be able to easily attract users if they only accept bitcoin. 3) Why would someone pay money to pirate movies when they can just do it for free?
You are not pirating movies, see. This would be a legal site where you are paying a lot less...
I guess it depends what you mean by "pirating." If you mean some thing based on morality or justice, the copyright holder is not getting their promised share of the revenue, so (regardless of how much you actually care about that) the site is in the same boat as The Pirate Bay there. If you mean "legal" then the immediate question becomes, legal where? Rojodirecta was "legal" too, remember? Didn't stop the U.S. from seizing their domain for a year and a half.[1]
What's that line? "The truth is not a bulletproof vest."
[1] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/government-goes-0...
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
The difference is that it's not a pirate website. It's WTO sanctioned, thus a legal offer. This would make things harder to shut down, since it's hard to argue that it should be shut down because it's a pirate site.
WTO sanctioning wouldn't prevent MPAA, or even the US government labeling it as a pirate website. US probably could ban importing IP from Antigua, thus making downloading stuff from there as illegal as conventional pirating.
Sure. However, we in Europe care little about what the mpaa says and German judges tend to be independent from the US government as well. I'd love to get legal and timely access to high hd content and would be more than happy to shell out some bucks. Europe has a financial crisis, but there's still a market here.
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#19The article is very sensationalist. WTO penalties are meant to be a proportional penalty, not some sort of carte-blanche. The sensationalist aspect here is the idea that Antigua might set a far below-market price on intellectual property items. Ah, we'll charge $0.000000000000000000000000000001 per song/movie! Functionally unlimited songs and movies for $1! They'll have to negotiate since we now have a legal way for…
The sensationalist aspect here is the idea that Antigua might set a far below-market price on intellectual property items
What's the price of something that has no incremental cost? We've been trained to think it's ~ $15, but there's no real basis for that.
Re: Antigua could hit U.S. with copyright-free downloads
#20The article is very sensationalist. WTO penalties are meant to be a proportional penalty, not some sort of carte-blanche. The sensationalist aspect here is the idea that Antigua might set a far below-market price on intellectual property items. Ah, we'll charge $0.000000000000000000000000000001 per song/movie! Functionally unlimited songs and movies for $1! They'll have to negotiate since we now have a legal way for…
The sensationalist aspect here is the idea that Antigua might set a far below-market price on intellectual property items What's the price of something that has no incremental cost? We've been trained to think it's ~ $15, but there's no real basis for that.
>What's the price of something that has no incremental cost?
Whatever the market is willing to pay.