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Core competencies of great hackers

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Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#11

Post by kaens »

dan_sim wrote: post #2

I don't want to start a war but I'd say that this list is about the differences between a Windows VS Linux developer. The thing behind what is said is "get your eyes off of the nice UI. Look and type code".

Every "hacker" I've met either:

Doesn't use windows.

Uses the tools listed in the article on windows. (well, windows equivalents anyhow)

I think the message was more of "Know your tools, know them well. Know them, and what they are capable of so that you may wield them to their fullest potential". For software, this involves reading the source when it's available.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#12

Post by jwilliams »

tom_rath wrote: post #10
jwilliams wrote: post #3

Typing speed? Not sure how much code people here write per hour, but I doubt typing speed is a real issue (the ratio of my staring at the screen thinking versus coding is probably 10:1).

I believe that corresponds with comfortable familiarity with and proper use of one's tools. I view a non-touch-typing hacker/coder much like a carpenter who drives nails using a hammer's handle. (The inevitable reaction from both camps: Hey, what's your problem? I'm using my tools to get the job done!)

Not sure I'm comfortable in that analogy.

If the carpenter who used the hammer handle only had to drive one nail instead of the regular fifty, then that might be totally worthwhile (Naturally, this would never be the case for carpentry, but it certainly is for coding).

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#13

Post by peregrine »

Visual Studio is a very powerful editor. Everything that you can do in Visual Studio through menus you can do through the keyboard. In fact you can setup visual studio to use emacs shortcuts ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms165509(VS.80).aspx ) and I'm sure it exists for Vim and etc.

People who believe the tools make the hacker are naive at best and would probably think the person with the best shoes wins the race. Not true when it comes down to it, the person driving those tools, whether they can type 60 wpm or use Emacs, is the one who is responsible for the creativity and output.

I think the author needs to step back and see if his priorities are in the right spot.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#14

Post by tom_rath »

jwilliams wrote: post #12
tom_rath wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that corresponds with comfortable familiarity with and proper use of one's tools. I view a non-touch-typing hacker/coder much like a carpenter who drives nails using a hammer's handle. (The inevitable reaction from both camps: Hey, what's your problem? I'm using my tools to get the job done!)

Not sure I'm comfortable in that analogy. If the carpenter who used the hammer handle only had to drive one nail instead of the regular fifty, then that might be totally worthwhile (Naturally, this would never be the case for carpentry, but it certainly is for coding).

Both cases describe a person who has not learned how to properly use the most basic tool for their profession.

How could that be excused?

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#15

Post by jwilliams »

danielharan wrote: post #6
jwilliams wrote: post #3

Typing speed? Not sure how much code people here write per hour, but I doubt typing speed is a real issue (the ratio of my staring at the screen thinking versus coding is probably 10:1).

It's not a "real" issue, so much as a proxy. I've never seen a good hacker look at their keyboard, whereas there are plenty of people that get out of flow looking for a symbol. If a person can't type, I simply assume they're a noob and don't want them on my team. I don't expect them to have a very different ration of thinking vs. coding though :)

I can see that - it's like musicians that don't rate musicians who can't play piano.

But - I guess I've seen a few counter-examples in coding - e.g. I used to know a mainframe guy who had arthritic pain. He coded very slowly indeed, but it flowed out of him flawlessly.... So I tend not to have that bias.

If I met someone who wanted to get into programming, I certainly wouldn't say "practice your typing" - I'd say, "read these books".

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#16

Post by dazzawazza »

One of my early mentors taught me that "it's not how fast you type but what you type" that matters.

I think his lengthy career as a journalist, designer, photographer, M$ engineer, Apple engineer and Google Engineer have proven him correct.

The analogy with understanding/familiarity with your tools is weak. The only important tool for an engineer is his brain.

(PS I abhor the term hacker)

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#17

Post by nostrademons »

hairsupply wrote: post #9

- Type fast - Use Linux - Use TextMate/VI/emacs - Don't read documentation Sounds like "Core competencies of ruby on rails hackers"

Well, it's more "Core competencies of hackers in the C/C++/UNIX/Scripting/Web tradition."

Most of the great Windows hackers I know use Visual Studio. Most of the great Java hackers use IntelliJ. Of course, people in the UNIX/web tradition would probably not admit that great hackers exist in those cultures, but they've put out some pretty impressive software...

Also - I suspect that great UNIX/web hackers don't use IDEs because the IDEs for those languages suck. I work on a C++ web team. If you glance around our monitors, everyone has the same setup: 4-6 terminals, 3-5 emacs/vim windows open, and Firefox. The funny thing is, many of us are ex-Java programmers, and we all used either IntelliJ or Eclipse in our Java programming days. And would love to use something like IntelliJ for C++, but we took one look at the C++ support in Eclipse and ran back to vim.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#18

Post by jwilliams »

tom_rath wrote: post #14
jwilliams wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I'm comfortable in that analogy. If the carpenter who used the hammer handle only had to drive one nail instead of the regular fifty, then that might be totally worthwhile (Naturally, this would never be the case for carpentry, but it certainly is for coding).

Both cases describe a person who has not learned how to properly use the most basic tool for their profession. How could that be excused?

Because I don't think typing is the most basic tool - It's abstract thought.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#19

Post by nostrademons »

kaens wrote: post #11
dan_sim wrote: post #2

I don't want to start a war but I'd say that this list is about the differences between a Windows VS Linux developer. The thing behind what is said is "get your eyes off of the nice UI. Look and type code".

Every "hacker" I've met either: Doesn't use windows. Uses the tools listed in the article on windows. (well, windows equivalents anyhow) I think the message was more of "Know your tools, know them well. Know them, and what they are capable of so that you may wield them to their fullest potential". For software, this involves reading the source when it's available.

Could that be because you exclude Windows hackers from your definition of "hacker"?

I know some folks on the Google Toolbar team. I don't use Toolbar, and neither do any of my friends. It's desktop software, and desktop software for Windows, so I mostly ignore it.

But their installed base is huge. I'd wager that if you added up the combined user base of every Web2.0 startup mentioned on this site, you still wouldn't equal the number of Google Toolbar users worldwide. Are they still hackers?

FWIW, they use Visual Studio.

Re: Core competencies of great hackers

#20

Post by strlen »

These things aren't really enough. They're more of "things you need to know be a computer hobbyist". I did put together a quick list once -- for an HN post asking what should someone learn as undergrad if they wish to be a web developer -- of things I'd prefer a back-end developer that I would hire to know:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=499880

Of course, knowing these things (or really, knowing anything) doesn't make you a hacker quite yet, it's a title one earns within a community by contributing to it. As cliche as it is, "how to become a hacker" covers this part:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#status

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