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Perl is not Dead, it is a Dead End

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Re: Perl is not Dead, it is a Dead End

#11

Post by lazyjones »

hoola wrote: post #7
nmcfarl wrote: post #2

This is worth reading, in spite of it's inflammatory title, as it's really about a new project: moe ( https://github.com/stevan/moe ) an "ultra-modern perl 5" written in Scala.

Some of the problems that the author mentions in Perl5 are actual problems in Scala, for example the compiler and interpreter latency or start up time, the complexity of the language, the philosophy TIMTOWTDI and the bigger one is that other languages are getting better and better. Why just not to translate the philosophy of Perl to Scala, that is write a book translating the most common idioms of Perl to Scala. Good…

I mostly agree and believe that before another abomination loosely based on Perl is written in Scala, people should learn Scala. However, Scala's syntax is also quite complicated, Scala code is often hard to read (far too much TIMTOWTDI there as well), so personally I favour Go as a modern alternative to Perl.

Re: Perl is not Dead, it is a Dead End

#12

Post by cmccabe »

draegtun wrote: post #8
cmccabe wrote: post #4

If "Perl is a dead end" (his words, not mine), then why not switch to another similar language like Python or Ruby? I guess I don't understand why this guy wants to create yet another programming language. He spends his entire slide deck complaining about how bad Perl is, without ever discussing the obvious possibility of... just using another language. Is there anything good about Perl 5 that other languages haven't…

> If "Perl is a dead end" (his words, not mine), then why not switch to another similar language like Python or Ruby? Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby. >I guess I don't understand why this guy wants to create yet another programming language. He isn't. It looks like he's creating an improved / cleaned-up perl5 running on a new VM. Think of it as perl6 if the perl6 moniker hadn't already b…

Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby.

Like what, exactly? He even has a slide which says this about Node.js: "there is no problem." If there is no problem, then what is he trying to solve by creating a new language? I am confused.

The author of the talk (Stevan Little) is the creator of Moose (http://moose.perl.org). I think what he maybe striving for is a Moose implemented on a modern future proofed VM (full threading/multiprocessing, etc).

Moose is cool and all, but it basically just brings Perl up to the same level of functionality that other languages like Python and Ruby have right out of the box. Using the JVM seems like a particularly unfortunate choice since it has such a long start-up time and traditionally Perl scripts were for quick and dirty jobs.

Re: Perl is not Dead, it is a Dead End

#13

Post by chromatic »

cmccabe wrote: post #12
draegtun wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If "Perl is a dead end" (his words, not mine), then why not switch to another similar language like Python or Ruby? Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby. >I guess I don't understand why this guy wants to create yet another programming language. He isn't. It looks like he's creating an improved / cleaned-up perl5 running on a new VM. Think of it as perl6 if the perl6 moniker hadn't already b…

Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby. Like what, exactly? He even has a slide which says this about Node.js: "there is no problem." If there is no problem, then what is he trying to solve by creating a new language? I am confused. The author of the talk (Stevan Little) is the creator of Moose ( http://moose.perl.org ). I think what he maybe striving for is a Moose implemented on a modern futu…

Moose is cool and all, but it basically just brings Perl up to the same level of functionality that other languages like Python and Ruby have right out of the box.

Python and Ruby have parametric roles/traits? Typed attributes with coercions?

Re: Perl is not Dead, it is a Dead End

#14

Post by draegtun »

cmccabe wrote: post #12
draegtun wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If "Perl is a dead end" (his words, not mine), then why not switch to another similar language like Python or Ruby? Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby. >I guess I don't understand why this guy wants to create yet another programming language. He isn't. It looks like he's creating an improved / cleaned-up perl5 running on a new VM. Think of it as perl6 if the perl6 moniker hadn't already b…

Because a lot of the points given also apply to Python & Ruby. Like what, exactly? He even has a slide which says this about Node.js: "there is no problem." If there is no problem, then what is he trying to solve by creating a new language? I am confused. The author of the talk (Stevan Little) is the creator of Moose ( http://moose.perl.org ). I think what he maybe striving for is a Moose implemented on a modern futu…

>Like what, exactly?...

Threading / Multicore processing. This is the 800 pound gorilla sitting in all programming language camps.

>Moose is cool and all, but it basically just brings Perl up to the same level of functionality that other languages like Python and Ruby

Nope... Moose brings Perl up to the CLOS (Lisp) level of OO which is beyond what you get with Python & Ruby.

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