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JavaScript is the future...maybe

blog.jonathanchannon.com

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Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#11

Post by rohern »

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #5
FourthProtocol wrote: post #3

As far as JavaScript goes he's not off the mark. The thing that saddens me a bit is that it's yet another post about a particular language/technology/thing. No language/technology/thing is better than another. It may be better than another in a particular context. This is as true for Android as it is for Visual Basic and Arduino. While this is obviously my personal opinion, I think the industry as a whole might benef…

No language/technology/thing is better than another. It may be better than another in a particular context. I don't really buy into this reasoning. If a given language is worse than every other in almost every context (the "global" context, if you will), then it's clearly an inferior language relative to the others. JavaScript does exhibit this. It has exactly one thing going for it: it's the only scripting language…

Hear, hear!

It has exactly one thing going for it: it's the only scripting language widely available in web browsers.

Please let us change this. We are marching into the future heady with ambition and the common tool is JavaScript. This is a sad state of affairs.

Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#12

Post by runaro »

FourthProtocol wrote: post #3

As far as JavaScript goes he's not off the mark. The thing that saddens me a bit is that it's yet another post about a particular language/technology/thing. No language/technology/thing is better than another. It may be better than another in a particular context. This is as true for Android as it is for Visual Basic and Arduino. While this is obviously my personal opinion, I think the industry as a whole might benef…

If you look at the definition of "good" in Noah Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language, it will say "fit for a particular purpose" to say that nothing is any better than anything else is to ignore purposes.

Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#13

Post by PommeDeTerre »

amouat wrote: post #8
krutulis wrote: post #6

I'm baffled by people's obsession with finding The One Programming Language. Would the world be better off if everyone spoke and thought in only English?

I agree with your sentiment, but there is still a lot to be said for being able to use the same language on the server and client within a single application. I'm currently investigating ClojureScript for this very reason.

Why do so many people consider using the same language on the server and on the client to be such an accomplishment?

We had exactly that situation for many years. We'd write our server software in C or C++, and we'd write our client software in C or C++.

A bit later on, and we saw Java become popular. Soon we were writing server-side code in Java, and accessing these servers using client apps written in Java.

Some time after that, we saw people and organizations more in the Microsoft camp doing the same with VB.NET and C#.

It's only with the relatively recent rise of web apps, and the inflexibility brought on by JavaScript being the only viable scripting language supported by the major browsers, that we've seen this issue arise.

Having to use JavaScript on both the client-side and server-side shouldn't be seen as beneficial in any way. It's actually just a very negative side effect of JavaScript being the only option for client-side web development.

Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#14

Post by MJR »

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #5
FourthProtocol wrote: post #3

As far as JavaScript goes he's not off the mark. The thing that saddens me a bit is that it's yet another post about a particular language/technology/thing. No language/technology/thing is better than another. It may be better than another in a particular context. This is as true for Android as it is for Visual Basic and Arduino. While this is obviously my personal opinion, I think the industry as a whole might benef…

No language/technology/thing is better than another. It may be better than another in a particular context. I don't really buy into this reasoning. If a given language is worse than every other in almost every context (the "global" context, if you will), then it's clearly an inferior language relative to the others. JavaScript does exhibit this. It has exactly one thing going for it: it's the only scripting language…

It's missing critical features that are essential for anything but the smallest-scale development.

What in your opinion is smallest-scale development? Millions of users using your application each year? Do we need web apps to support billions of users each year now?

JavaScript is the most superior scripting language widely available in web browsers. Until there is an alternative it cannot be an inferior language because there is nothing equivalent on which to base a comparison.

Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#15

Post by FourthProtocol »

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #5
FourthProtocol wrote: post #3

As far as JavaScript goes he's not off the mark. The thing that saddens me a bit is that it's yet another post about a particular language/technology/thing. No language/technology/thing is better than another. It may be better than another in a particular context. This is as true for Android as it is for Visual Basic and Arduino. While this is obviously my personal opinion, I think the industry as a whole might benef…

No language/technology/thing is better than another. It may be better than another in a particular context. I don't really buy into this reasoning. If a given language is worse than every other in almost every context (the "global" context, if you will), then it's clearly an inferior language relative to the others. JavaScript does exhibit this. It has exactly one thing going for it: it's the only scripting language…

Aside from that, it's inferior to most other languages in almost every respect.

Your perspective is semantic. Mine is pragmatic. I want to get a job done, and I want to be successful. I have no interest in the best tool.

If I'm targeting web browsers then JavaScript is the logical choice that will make me successful. It doesn't matter that it's a swamp donkey.

JS libraries are like any other library. The developer makes the choice. I wouldn't, for instance, distribute the Windows Phone toolkit with my app when all I'm using from the toolkit is the ExpanderView control.

Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#17

Post by FourthProtocol »

MJR wrote: post #14
PommeDeTerre wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No language/technology/thing is better than another. It may be better than another in a particular context. I don't really buy into this reasoning. If a given language is worse than every other in almost every context (the "global" context, if you will), then it's clearly an inferior language relative to the others. JavaScript does exhibit this. It has exactly one thing going for it: it's the only scripting language…

It's missing critical features that are essential for anything but the smallest-scale development. What in your opinion is smallest-scale development? Millions of users using your application each year? Do we need web apps to support billions of users each year now? JavaScript is the most superior scripting language widely available in web browsers. Until there is an alternative it cannot be an inferior language beca…

Thank you, you put it better than I was able to!

Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#18

Post by archangel_one »

krutulis wrote: post #6

I'm baffled by people's obsession with finding The One Programming Language. Would the world be better off if everyone spoke and thought in only English?

Well, if everyone in the world spoke the same language (whatever it happens to be) then more or less everyone would be able to understand one another. It'd be easier to develop speech software with only one language's worth of idiosyncrasies. So yeah, I think the world might well be better off as a whole.

Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#19

Post by amouat »

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #13
amouat wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but there is still a lot to be said for being able to use the same language on the server and client within a single application. I'm currently investigating ClojureScript for this very reason.

Why do so many people consider using the same language on the server and on the client to be such an accomplishment? We had exactly that situation for many years. We'd write our server software in C or C++, and we'd write our client software in C or C++. A bit later on, and we saw Java become popular. Soon we were writing server-side code in Java, and accessing these servers using client apps written in Java. Some ti…

I wouldn't use the word "accomplishment"; you're right - it's a side effect of JavaScript being the only option.

But why complicate things with multiple languages if you can use one? Then all developers can understand and edit the codebase.

Re: JavaScript is the future...maybe

#20

Post by stingraycharles »

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #13
amouat wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but there is still a lot to be said for being able to use the same language on the server and client within a single application. I'm currently investigating ClojureScript for this very reason.

Why do so many people consider using the same language on the server and on the client to be such an accomplishment? We had exactly that situation for many years. We'd write our server software in C or C++, and we'd write our client software in C or C++. A bit later on, and we saw Java become popular. Soon we were writing server-side code in Java, and accessing these servers using client apps written in Java. Some ti…

Javascript isn't the only language you can develop web applications on, in the same sense that assembly isn't the only language you can develop server software on. Javascript is what all browsers natively speak, and if you want your language to be understood by a browser, you must compile it down to javascript. The same can be said about assembly: it's the language that all CPUs speak, and if you want your application to be understood by a CPU, you must compile it down to ASM. In this way, you can see javascript as the bytecode of the internet.

So this shouldn't be seen as something negative: it's great, actually, that javascript is evolving in this way. It will allow for more flexibility: you can write your server software in clojurescript, your client software in coffeescript, and still share some common libraries for functions you need to call on both client and server.

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