Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#11

Post by xuki » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 8:41 AM UTC

watson wrote: post #6

How does this affect non-US companies? I guess the DUNS rule only apply if you're incorporated in the US

We need it in Singapore, and we don't have the option to get it for free, we had to paid around 30 USD for it. And it took weeks to sync with Apple database.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#12

Post by thomseddon » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 8:52 AM UTC

For companies in the UK finding your DUNS number can be real pain, so for the record you can actually look it up yourself for free, with no wait: http://blog.thomseddon.co.uk/find-your-d-u-n-s-number-if-you...

And the TL;DR: http://www.dnb.co.uk/myduns

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#13

Post by davidjgraph » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 8:55 AM UTC

I received my number within a week for free without hassle, but I applied some years ago. After that, I received continued phone calls on the registered phone number from companies claiming to have some association with DUNS.

This continued to the point that we actually changed the company phone number to avoid these people. We left the old number working for a while, and the only calls were DUNS spam.

After we dropped the old number we found only one disadvantage to having our DUNS contact details being out of date. When we applied for one of the more verified SSL certificate packages available, the company phoned the number on the DUNS database to verify.

But that could be worked around, and a bit of hassle there was far outweighed by the advantage of stopping the spam calls.

So linkbait headline? No, I would agree from several years of having been on their database.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#14

Post by bkraz » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 9:01 AM UTC

I registered for a DUNS number circa 2003 at no cost, and also experienced high-pressure sales calls/emails regarding upgraded credit monitoring services. One sales rep even mentioned 9/11 as a reason that I should care about my business's credit rating. That's pretty scammy as well as pretty stupid. If you actually want to do business with the government, then you'll also have to register your new DUNS number with the CCR, and ORCA, which are much more time-consuming processes, but not at all scammy.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#15

Post by ChrisTaggart » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 9:13 AM UTC

The wider problem with the DUNS number, especially as far as its use within government, is that it is a proprietary identifier, which makes it unsuitable for use in a public domain context, especially as far as combining with other data (e.g. combining data from different federal agencies) or in an open data context. Having said that the UK government is now using it in procurement just as the US government is now starting to understand the underlying problems and having second thoughts about its use. See http://blog.opencorporates.com/2012/07/24/are-duns-numbers-t... for more details

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#16

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

r3demon wrote: post #3

michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

still, taking 30+ days to register is insane, its clear they are some kind of monopoly and need more competitors

> still, taking 30+ days to register is insane

It may just be an indication that the the system is being used for things that it was never intended for. Maybe for the original uses, a 30-day lead time wasn't such a big deal, e.g. "when doing business with the government" over many years.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#17

Post by mmahemoff » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 9:30 AM UTC

thomseddon wrote: post #12

For companies in the UK finding your DUNS number can be real pain, so for the record you can actually look it up yourself for free, with no wait: http://blog.thomseddon.co.uk/find-your-d-u-n-s-number-if-you... And the TL;DR: http://www.dnb.co.uk/myduns

Thanks for this! Took 5 minutes and they mailed my number back immediately.

Any idea why it's free in the UK?

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#18

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 9:37 AM UTC

guptaneil wrote: post #9

michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

Scam might be too harsh a word, but it is more than just a pain. They have a pattern of shady business practices, including bullying customers into paying more for a service that they have a federally-granted monopoly on. They are abusing their position as a DUNS provider to make profit off of uninformed small businesses. That's what earns them the title of a scam. DUNS may very well be a useful service, but if it's…

Scam is just fine.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#19

Post by CamperBob2 » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 9:57 AM UTC

jakejake wrote: post #4

michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

It's not a scam but they do call and pressure you to buy their costly advanced listing. I once got into a surprising argument with a phone rep as he practically refused to take no for an answer. I had only registered to bid on govt contracts. Left a very bad taste in my mouth for their services.

Same here. They do a good "Nice little business you've got there, but it's getting a lot of reports" act. Easy to resist when my business hadn't engaged in any activity at all in the couple of months since I'd registered for the number.

Total scam.

Re: Dear Apple, DUNS is a scam, but you already know that

#20

Post by Mvandenbergh » Wed, Jan 02, 2013, 10:11 AM UTC

r3demon wrote: post #3

michaelpinto wrote: post #2

I hate linkbait headlines like this because DUNS is not a scam: It's a useful tool used in the real world of business. Need to see how long a company typically takes to pay? You use DUNS. Want to get and Federal work? You have to have a DUNS before you can register (in addition to your IRS paperwork). Of course I get the idea that if you're a lone coder how that can be a pain. I also get that if you aren't in the US…

still, taking 30+ days to register is insane, its clear they are some kind of monopoly and need more competitors

Well the system is designed to facilitate long distance and international trade (with a DUNS number you can look-up how long a business has existed and their payment history) even if you're in Pakistan and they're in Argentina. Since companies dealing in physical goods take much longer than 30 days to set-up anyway the process hasn't traditionally been a constraint. All that "unneccesary information" is very relevant for a textile shipper even if it isn't for someone selling a crossword app.