How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers • Hacker News Board

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#11

Post by davemel37 » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 3:49 PM UTC

mikecane wrote: post #10

>>>and stated it as a scheme of a number of friends, who had requested me to go about and propose it to such as they thought lovers of reading Wow. That's right out of the later playbook of Edward Bernays. Set up a fictional committee that "endorses" something in order to enhance its marketing.

I think the point is less about social proof here and more about understanding that a good portion of rejection from investors and prospects could simply be the way you are pitching elevates you above their level, and their natural ego -based response will be to reject it, find holes in it, etc...

If you want to succeed at pitching investors or finding customers, it would do you well to check your vanity at the door, focus less on what you created and more on what it will do for them.

A simple adaptation would be approaching your prospects saying, "Hey I came across this interesting product and thought you would be interested in it." No need to lie, just ommit your involvement.

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#12

Post by debacle » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 3:52 PM UTC

mikecane wrote: post #10

>>>and stated it as a scheme of a number of friends, who had requested me to go about and propose it to such as they thought lovers of reading Wow. That's right out of the later playbook of Edward Bernays. Set up a fictional committee that "endorses" something in order to enhance its marketing.

Completely different motive, here.

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#13

Post by mikecane » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 3:53 PM UTC

davemel37 wrote: post #11

mikecane wrote: post #10

>>>and stated it as a scheme of a number of friends, who had requested me to go about and propose it to such as they thought lovers of reading Wow. That's right out of the later playbook of Edward Bernays. Set up a fictional committee that "endorses" something in order to enhance its marketing.

I think the point is less about social proof here and more about understanding that a good portion of rejection from investors and prospects could simply be the way you are pitching elevates you above their level, and their natural ego -based response will be to reject it, find holes in it, etc... If you want to succeed at pitching investors or finding customers, it would do you well to check your vanity at the door,…

Oh it's all about social proof. How human beings generally operate: "What's in it for me?" and "Why should I help you?"

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#14

Post by mikecane » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 3:54 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #12

mikecane wrote: post #10

>>>and stated it as a scheme of a number of friends, who had requested me to go about and propose it to such as they thought lovers of reading Wow. That's right out of the later playbook of Edward Bernays. Set up a fictional committee that "endorses" something in order to enhance its marketing.

Completely different motive, here.

Motive doesn't matter. It's the method.

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#15

Post by hdoan741 » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 4:27 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #8

His autobiography is full of lies. He wrote it to represent how he wanted people to believe he lived his life, not how he actually did it. It's a wonderful book and really worthwhile, but it's not an accurate representation of his life in any way.

Evidence, please!

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#16

Post by mattmaroon » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 4:27 PM UTC

I'm not sure this would help you with raising VC or angel money, in fact it would probably hurt you. All VCs are looking to invest in the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, etc. They believe, probably more than they should, in the cult of personality school of investing. If anything you'd probably want to act toward them as if you did it all yourself.

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#17

Post by davemel37 » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 4:57 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #16

I'm not sure this would help you with raising VC or angel money, in fact it would probably hurt you. All VCs are looking to invest in the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, etc. They believe, probably more than they should, in the cult of personality school of investing. If anything you'd probably want to act toward them as if you did it all yourself.

Interestingly enough Ben Franklin actually agrees with you earlier in the book. "Most People Dislike Vanity in Others, Whatever share they have of it themselves; but I give it fair quarter wherever I meet with it, being persuaded that it is often productive of good to the possessor, and to others that are within his sphere of action."

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#18

Post by Bud » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 5:08 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #8

His autobiography is full of lies. He wrote it to represent how he wanted people to believe he lived his life, not how he actually did it. It's a wonderful book and really worthwhile, but it's not an accurate representation of his life in any way.

I would say that Ben's lies (if they are indeed so) are better than many men's truths.

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#19

Post by Jeff_29 » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 5:34 PM UTC

Ben Franklin attributed his initial failure and subsequent success in this venture to not "rais[ing] one's reputation in the smallest degree above that of one's neighbors". Perhaps he was incorrect in his assumption and this is simply a good example of early investors preferring to invest in a project with management team rather than a solo entrepreneur.

On another note, for those who are criticizing Franklin's integrity, should we do a comparison with the business leaders and politicians of today? I think Franklin would come out looking pretty good.

Re: How Benjamin Franklin Got His First Fifty Customers

#20

Post by hosh » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 7:39 PM UTC

davemel37 wrote: post #11

mikecane wrote: post #10

>>>and stated it as a scheme of a number of friends, who had requested me to go about and propose it to such as they thought lovers of reading Wow. That's right out of the later playbook of Edward Bernays. Set up a fictional committee that "endorses" something in order to enhance its marketing.

I think the point is less about social proof here and more about understanding that a good portion of rejection from investors and prospects could simply be the way you are pitching elevates you above their level, and their natural ego -based response will be to reject it, find holes in it, etc... If you want to succeed at pitching investors or finding customers, it would do you well to check your vanity at the door,…

Yeah! That is how I read it too.

We can take a step beyond that: http://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html

Here, Elizabeth Gilbert is talking about an older take on genius. That genius is not any one property of a person, but rather, something that appears to the one who is prepared. It makes sense to me, considering that an innovation often occurs to a more than one people who don't have much connection with each other. The time was simply right.

Saying, "I have a genius (for the moment)" rather than "I am a genius" also takes off a lot of pressure to continually prove you are a genius. That kind of hidden agenda (Jungian shadow) covertly demands that other people sees you as the originator. It comes down to ... do you want to see this product come out into the world, or do you want glory?

In other words, there isn't a need to lie, or even omitting your involvement. "Hey I came across this interesting product" is true, not simply evasive -- the genius was gifted to you; and if you are not prepared to share it, then it will find someone else more suitable.

Besides. How can you expect a startup to mature into a business model that runs itself if you can't let go of demanding credit? If it is about the product -- regardless of credit -- then the whole team is involved -- engineers, designers, investors and customers.

Thanks for sharing this bit from Ben Franklin. Earlier this morning, I had sent out a snarky email. I was overtly saying I wanted to pass on some ideas, yet I was demanding credit in the subtext. This was not impeccable, and probably came across as creepy. Now I know :-)