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Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

technologyreview.com

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Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#11

Post by arrrg »

quanticle wrote: post #7
mrb wrote: post #5

One of the reasons is, as the article states, that US companies have to recover higher costs to acquire customers. But it doesn't say why. The reason is because grid power is more expensive in Germany: $0.30/kWh compared to $0.10/kWh on average in the US. Therefore potential customers are easier to convince to use solar in Germany.

And, on the flip side, Germany has massive tax subsidies for solar power. It's a lot easier to convince someone to get solar panels installed on their roof if you can show them a tax benefit for doing so. On a broader note, I don't get why we think it's a good thing for Germany to have this much solar energy. Unlike, say, Spain, the German climate is not especially well suited to solar power. It's too far north, as a…

There aren’t any tax subsidies in Germany for solar installations. There are subsidies, find out for yourself how that works, it’s not that hard. This ignorance about what is actually going on makes me very angry!

Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#12

Post by stfu »

walshemj wrote: post #6

well its the tax breaks of course silly. In the UK the grants for solar used to guarantee around a 8% return - this is a tax break for the Upper middle classes who can spend $20k or so. This is a result of the silly panic over fukishima in Germany and the greens being brought off to keep Adrea Merkal in power.

If you want to spur private investments it seems to me smarter to target the middle class than those closer to the welfare benefit system.

Home owners are a lot more willing to put money into their property today, i.e. invest money today for the vage promise of the government paying it back over the next 20 years. This seems a much more value creation oriented idea than just to stimulate short term consumption.

Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#13

Post by jsiarto »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #8

I have never understood residential solar. Seems like a gimmick. Why would I want these panels on my roof? It seems like hosting a server in your basement. It is appealing in theory, but silly in practice. If I just hosted my panels at a site where other people hosted their solar panels, you could probably install it for less than $1.00 per watt.

Well for one, in some parts of the country residential solar means a $0/mo electric bills and in somes cases you spin the meter in reverse and build a credit. The panels themselves are maintenance-free, have 20-30 year warranties and (personally) just look plain cool.

I have a family member who has a large array on his roof and he runs his entire house and charges his Tesla all off the grid. He's still connected, but in most cases he runs a $0 bill.

Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#14

Post by Xylakant »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #8

I have never understood residential solar. Seems like a gimmick. Why would I want these panels on my roof? It seems like hosting a server in your basement. It is appealing in theory, but silly in practice. If I just hosted my panels at a site where other people hosted their solar panels, you could probably install it for less than $1.00 per watt.

You can use otherwise unused space - that's the theory. Now if you install solar heating panels on your roof you can actually heat your house and warm your water with that, even in winter. They're fairly efficient. Nobody does that in germany though, since it's more economical to sell the power generated by solar panels.

Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#15

Post by tsotha »

arrrg wrote: post #10
walshemj wrote: post #6

well its the tax breaks of course silly. In the UK the grants for solar used to guarantee around a 8% return - this is a tax break for the Upper middle classes who can spend $20k or so. This is a result of the silly panic over fukishima in Germany and the greens being brought off to keep Adrea Merkal in power.

No it’s not, silly. There aren’t any tax breaks for solar installations in Germany. There are guaranteed prices energy companies have to pay for solar energy from small private installations. And besides, this is about the cost of the installation. You did read the article?

>There aren’t any tax breaks for solar installations in Germany. There are guaranteed prices energy companies have to pay for solar energy from small private installations.

That's even better than a tax break. Who can turn down free money?

Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#16

Post by lispm »

quanticle wrote: post #7
mrb wrote: post #5

One of the reasons is, as the article states, that US companies have to recover higher costs to acquire customers. But it doesn't say why. The reason is because grid power is more expensive in Germany: $0.30/kWh compared to $0.10/kWh on average in the US. Therefore potential customers are easier to convince to use solar in Germany.

And, on the flip side, Germany has massive tax subsidies for solar power. It's a lot easier to convince someone to get solar panels installed on their roof if you can show them a tax benefit for doing so. On a broader note, I don't get why we think it's a good thing for Germany to have this much solar energy. Unlike, say, Spain, the German climate is not especially well suited to solar power. It's too far north, as a…

> underinvestment in wind

estimated electricity production for Germany in 2012:

* Wind: 45 Billion kwh * Solar: 28,5 Billion kWh

Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#17

Post by anonymfus »

quanticle wrote: post #7
mrb wrote: post #5

One of the reasons is, as the article states, that US companies have to recover higher costs to acquire customers. But it doesn't say why. The reason is because grid power is more expensive in Germany: $0.30/kWh compared to $0.10/kWh on average in the US. Therefore potential customers are easier to convince to use solar in Germany.

And, on the flip side, Germany has massive tax subsidies for solar power. It's a lot easier to convince someone to get solar panels installed on their roof if you can show them a tax benefit for doing so. On a broader note, I don't get why we think it's a good thing for Germany to have this much solar energy. Unlike, say, Spain, the German climate is not especially well suited to solar power. It's too far north, as a…

>Unlike, say, Spain, the German climate is not especially well suited to solar power. It's too far north, as a country, and climatically, Germany has a lot of cloudy days, which means that solar panels are not really running at peak efficiency most of the time. Germany would be much better served by wind power, because of its advantageous position on the North European Plain.

Wind power requires more territory per watt than solar and German population is dense just enough that wind power is on the edge of pay-off.

Source:

http://www.ted.com/talks/david_mackay_a_reality_check_on_ren...

Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#19

Post by brendn »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #8

I have never understood residential solar. Seems like a gimmick. Why would I want these panels on my roof? It seems like hosting a server in your basement. It is appealing in theory, but silly in practice. If I just hosted my panels at a site where other people hosted their solar panels, you could probably install it for less than $1.00 per watt.

That's exactly what's happening in some places in Vermont. (I know, not the first place you think of when you hear 'solar.') People can buy shares of a solar co-op and get credited on their power bill for their portion of any electricity generated. It will be interesting to see how that model works in the long run.

Re: Why Solar Installations Cost More in the U.S. than in Germany

#20

Post by kevinpet »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #8

I have never understood residential solar. Seems like a gimmick. Why would I want these panels on my roof? It seems like hosting a server in your basement. It is appealing in theory, but silly in practice. If I just hosted my panels at a site where other people hosted their solar panels, you could probably install it for less than $1.00 per watt.

There may be advantages if you are using it to run an air conditioner somewhere sunny. Peak output will sync up to peak usage, and you won't need to take the losses stepping it up and down for distribution.

There might be a bit of conspicuous environmentalism, but it's probably mostly about permitting and property rights issues. No one would lease you the roof for $50/month so that you can install panels over them, but they'll happily install their own.

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