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Stop Generalizing About Europe

jonasbentzen.com

11–20 of 369 posts

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#11
post #6
post #4

Hmm. Perhaps you could stop generalizing about people generalizing about Europe. Varsavsky has lived and built businesses in Madrid since 1995, so I think that his contrasts between the European market and the American market from the entrepreneur's point of view are really pretty trustworthy. Your points about European diversity are quite valid, although I think they're beside the point. But your ad hominem "Oh my,…

Have you followed the HN discussion about Varsavskys post? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4968589 He takes his experience from Spain and UK and glosses it all over europe with some hearsay in between. Some of his statements may apply to spain and the UK, but pretty much all of them don't apply in germany - even the ones about germany. So it's not an ad hominem attack when the author says "another one that falls…

No, actually, I hadn't; I'm nominally on vacation.

What I'm about to say is intellectually sloppy. But Varsavsky's facts are not terribly important. His point about German startups was true at one time, and is no longer true, but his larger point about legal requirements for the workplace being strict in Europe and essentially non-existent in America is true. His contrast of personal liability for entrepreneurs in Europe with the essential absence of any such liability in America is true.

His post is not directed towards Europeans. It is directed towards American entrepreneurs who are looking at Europe - and could come to Europe with vastly incorrect assumptions about what it means to start and run a business here.

Along the way, sure, he makes some pretty generalized points about business in Europe that may be less than accurate. The "no new valuable businesses" point is a little off and to my mind not even the point. But what he is actually saying is that, should you want to start a startup in Europe as an American, here are some things you should know in advance, and here are some reasons you might want to do it despite a risk profile that is entirely different.

The diversity of Europe doesn't even matter in this context, except as a reason Americans might like to live here.

And OP's point that the income diversity between Scandinavia and Russia is really beside the point. The point is that the European middle class is healthier than the American middle class, and if you can steer around the problem that they speak fifty different languages, you've actually got a bigger market for consumer goods and services here than in the States - and that's a weird and unusual thought that I, personally, found quite inspiring.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#12
post #4

Hmm. Perhaps you could stop generalizing about people generalizing about Europe. Varsavsky has lived and built businesses in Madrid since 1995, so I think that his contrasts between the European market and the American market from the entrepreneur's point of view are really pretty trustworthy. Your points about European diversity are quite valid, although I think they're beside the point. But your ad hominem "Oh my,…

> Varsavsky has lived and built businesses in Madrid since 1995 Which is exactly why I'm puzzled by some of his completely wrong statements about Europe.

Have you ever been to Madrid? They're about as far away from the epicenter of Europe as you can get and still be in the Union - and not at all Central European. A lot of the points he made are very, very Spanish.

But as I just posted upthread, as a contrast between the "general look and feel" of Europe vs. the US, I thought his post was bang on.

Of course, I'm also an American in Europe - married to a Hungarian for 23 years. So take me with a grain of salt, I guess.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#13
post #5

I could make an almost identical argument about the usage of terms like "Americans". The states and even cities themselves are all very different.

And you'd be right. But you'd also have admit that Americans tend to do that to themselves. "The American Way" and whatnot; less bright people even saying "Unamerican" as if that was a thing. Those aren't labels others gave you, Americans proudly confess them. And then there is this ever-present flag and/or red-white-blue. From far away those similiarities seem to kinda outweigh the differences, it's just real hard to look past that, it being everywhere and all the time.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#14

I think you are pedantic about other people's semantics and not your own. E.G. when you say American, do you mean US citizens or people from the two continents of America? I think you mean the former. Just like they most likely mean Western Europe.

I think it's pedantic to confuse 'americans' with everyone from north/south america.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#17
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you followed the HN discussion about Varsavskys post? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4968589 He takes his experience from Spain and UK and glosses it all over europe with some hearsay in between. Some of his statements may apply to spain and the UK, but pretty much all of them don't apply in germany - even the ones about germany. So it's not an ad hominem attack when the author says "another one that falls…

No, actually, I hadn't; I'm nominally on vacation. What I'm about to say is intellectually sloppy. But Varsavsky's facts are not terribly important. His point about German startups was true at one time, and is no longer true, but his larger point about legal requirements for the workplace being strict in Europe and essentially non-existent in America is true. His contrast of personal liability for entrepreneurs in Eu…

That's something I already mentioned in the discussion about the original post: There are some interesting facts and some valid generalizations about europe, especially when you compare europe to america. The problem is not discussing these, but those are very very high level - even more high-level than generalizations about the USA. The problem is selling specifics as general truth which is what he does in large parts of his post. I'm not wearing leather trousers while posting this, despite being a mere 200 km from the Weisswurstäquator.

Btw: The point about a larger market is an interesting notion, but don't forget that you might just as well sell to canadians, middle and south america and you'd have a larger, even more unified market. That's exactly where the european diversity matters: It's hard to sell to france as a german startup and they other way round. So to get around that you actually need to serve a fragmented market with different rules and regulations for each fragment. See for example how last.fm radio was available in selected countries only or spotify as well.

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#19
post #5

I could make an almost identical argument about the usage of terms like "Americans". The states and even cities themselves are all very different.

Yes, indeed they are. But they all share a common language. It's a bit like Germany, Switzerland and Austria or even the german states themselves. We all share a common language so it we've seen the same movies, read the same media, etc. Certainly it's on a larger scale than the german states, but it's on a smaller scale than europe. If I travel 200 km to the east I'm in Poland. My GF comes from a village close to th…

"But they all share a common language"

Ha! You haven't been to Watsonville, California or just about anywhere along the border with Mexico, have you?

Re: Stop Generalizing About Europe

#20
post #4

Hmm. Perhaps you could stop generalizing about people generalizing about Europe. Varsavsky has lived and built businesses in Madrid since 1995, so I think that his contrasts between the European market and the American market from the entrepreneur's point of view are really pretty trustworthy. Your points about European diversity are quite valid, although I think they're beside the point. But your ad hominem "Oh my,…

Vivtek, you are projecting. Stop being a dick.
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