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Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

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Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#12

Post by ollysb »

mc32 wrote: post #2

Author asks: "I would start by measuring the magnitude of mass shootings as a problem. How does it compare to other issues such as preventable diseases, regular crime, terrorism?" But is that the best comparison? What about comparing it to frequency and impact in other countries? When we want to evaluate the effectiveness of a treatment, we don't measure efficacy against the treatment to a completely different diseas…

I visited Phoenix a couple of weeks ago and was shown a gun collection owned by a previous member of the army. I was shown a pistol collection, then rifles, then semi-automatics. Really a quite staggering amount of hardware. When I asked what license was required to own this type of equipment he replied none. Without making a judgement on whether or not civilians should be allowed to own this type of equipment in the first place, should it not be an absolute minimum that people first obtain a licence to purchase guns. We don't allow people on the roads without a licence and they're not even designed to kill. A simple first step would seem to be requiring basic equipment/awareness training and a licensing process.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#13

Post by Turing_Machine »

sp332 wrote: post #9
Turing_Machine wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mass shootings seem to be more rare in e.g. Europe." History indicates otherwise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

I can't downvote you, but that's a useless comment and you know it.

Don't worry. Your cobelievers already did it.

I guess I just don't have the "sophisticated" European point of view that says that millions killed by government don't count.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#14

Post by engtech »

Infographic on gun ownership around the world that was published by a Canadian newspaper after a public shooting at a mall.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/28/guns-ownership-aroun...

note that the black circle is not scaled by the population of the country so it isn't visually as useful as it could be.

Interesting take aways:

   * 88.9 guns per 100 U.S. citizens
   * 45.7 guns per 100 swedish citizens (next highest country in the world)

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#15

Post by pathy »

engtech wrote: post #14

Infographic on gun ownership around the world that was published by a Canadian newspaper after a public shooting at a mall. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/28/guns-ownership-aroun... note that the black circle is not scaled by the population of the country so it isn't visually as useful as it could be. Interesting take aways: * 88.9 guns per 100 U.S. citizens * 45.7 guns per 100 swedish citizens (next highest co…

> * 45.7 guns per 100 swedish citizens (next highest country in the world)

Swiss you mean? ;)

That said, a quick look at the list and it appears that no western country can compare to USA in firearm homicide per 100k citizens.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#16

Post by Todd »

I'm not looking forward to the coming months. It's going to be a political circus, with each side clamoring to push or protect their already strongly held beliefs and positions.

I really wish we would have a meaningful debate over the best tools and strategies for protecting people in large groups in public places. Because of the delay of so-called first responders, it is really left to the people who are there to take action.

Outside of banning and confiscating all guns, gun control isn't going to solve the problem. People with criminal intent will always find a way to carry out their plans (c.f. the recent spate of knife attacks in China).

We need defensive and offensive measures to minimize harm. I believe the lockdown plan put into action at the school probably saved more lives than any other one thing, until the police arrived. So giving schools more tools for effective plans like this would probably help.

On the offensive side, teachers and staff were left to fight guns with their hands. If they had had a weapon of their own (tasers or guns with rubber bullets, for example), they would have stood a better chance of minimizing harm. We allow pilots to carry weapons if they so choose and it is probably at least somewhat effective as a random deterrent, in addition to providing some actual protection.

Sadly, I don't think this line of thinking will come up. This thing is going to be played out largely in Washington, where entrenched groups will be mostly pushing existing agendae, not thinking in new ways to actually minimize the problem.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#18

Post by sp332 »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #13
sp332 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't downvote you, but that's a useless comment and you know it.

Don't worry. Your cobelievers already did it. I guess I just don't have the "sophisticated" European point of view that says that millions killed by government don't count.

It's not relevant to the conversation. We're talking about individuals. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_mili... seems to have a lot more action than the part of your page since the late 18th century, so I think you're wrong either way.

Re: Mass Shootings, Political Correctness, and Magical Thinking

#20

Post by bdunbar »

ollysb wrote: post #12
mc32 wrote: post #2

Author asks: "I would start by measuring the magnitude of mass shootings as a problem. How does it compare to other issues such as preventable diseases, regular crime, terrorism?" But is that the best comparison? What about comparing it to frequency and impact in other countries? When we want to evaluate the effectiveness of a treatment, we don't measure efficacy against the treatment to a completely different diseas…

I visited Phoenix a couple of weeks ago and was shown a gun collection owned by a previous member of the army. I was shown a pistol collection, then rifles, then semi-automatics. Really a quite staggering amount of hardware. When I asked what license was required to own this type of equipment he replied none. Without making a judgement on whether or not civilians should be allowed to own this type of equipment in the…

> We don't allow people on the roads without a licence

I'm not convinced by this argument. Firearms are not used in public spaces, but in private land, or on club-owned property.

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