Why is Learning to Code So Hard? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#11

Post by KeepTalking » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 4:44 PM UTC

Coding requires effort, which is acquired like any other skill such as reading/comprehension. Many people try to run before they even learn to walk and this is when the sudden leap in difficulty is encountered. It took me years( read - coding time and effort) to move from novice to an intermediate programmer and this occurs each time you want to move up on your skill level. You need to commit effort, and no doubt you are going to fail before you succeed. Pair programming, code reviews , mentoring etc ...appropriate to your own individual learning ability is paramount for success.

I personally found: 1. Code imitation - coupled with understanding 2. Code reviews - of a next level programmer 3. Blogging/Q & A(Stackoverflow sort) 4. CONFIDENCE as important in becoming a better programmer.

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#12

Post by verdverm » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 4:45 PM UTC

ChrisBanner wrote: post #4

Conversations about "learning to code" frighten me because they overlook a necessary foundation in engineering concepts like abstraction and the value of simplicity. If you're looking to hire software developers, stop interviewing "coders".

Truth be told!

I dropped out of college to learn to program, thought I could teach myself everything. The issue is that tutorials and books gloss over the theory.

It wasn't until I returned to college for a CS degree that my eyes were opened to what I was missing.

Why is this algorithm better than that algorithm? BigO... What does the compiler do with my code? PL... How does the code I write interact with the OS? What is concurrent vs parallel? amdahl's law...

why can for i ... for j... be better than for j for i

pass by value vs pass by reference which languages, when...

How many people use languages these days that require them to manage memory themselves?

Coding is hard because coders don't learn the theory of computing and the abstract concepts that extend beyond any particular language.

EOR.

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#13

Post by dccoolgai » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 4:48 PM UTC

Why is learning to read and write so hard? It seems natural to you now, but when you were in 1st grade, it was a pretty big challenge...It's not that it's "hard" or "easy" - the most interesting thing is that you chose to do it. Maybe a better question is "Why don't more people choose to learn coding?".

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#14

Post by sek » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 4:51 PM UTC

I found that I underestimated how hard it was for me in the beginning.

I had to learn C in university and I applied for BA first and thought coding is for monkeys (What an arrogant prick I was...). I hated it, I didn't understand anything first but I struggled trough. At some point it made "click" and I loved it ever since.

The funny thing is, afterwards I was biased in believing coding is easy and it has been for me from the beginning. It took me a while to realize how hard it was for me to start.

Anybody here with a similar experience?

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#15

Post by laumars » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 4:52 PM UTC

macavity23 wrote: post #3

For the same reasons that many people find learning mathematics so hard: it requires abstract thinking and the ability to layer abstractions on top of one another. I think anyone can learn to code, or learn maths, but there's no doubt that some folks are MUCH better predisposed to it. That said, some good tips in the article.

I found learning to code easier than learning to write in my native language. I think some people are just better suited to some subjects.

That said, I never did enjoy writing but always enjoyed programming, so I think an earlier commenter hit the nail on the head when he said it's down to having enough interest in a subject to learn things properly: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4933004

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#16

Post by taeric » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 4:54 PM UTC

Why do we think that coding is at all unique in this regard? Have you looked through your standard fare cook book? The leaps from step to step are sometimes astounding. Yet folks are usually able to pick that up. Same for sewing. Show me the typical sewing pattern and it looks like someone dropped some lines somewhere. How is anyone able to learn that?

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#17

Post by mitchi » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 5:12 PM UTC

The thing I notice about people who are frustrated about how difficult it is to code is that they don't give themselves enough time. Learning how to code, like any good craft, takes time and that's something most people cannot understand because of all the flashy and motivating books and tutorials out there. "Learn Ruby on Rails in 24 hours blablabla". I would say 3 years is a good start for the total beginner.

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#18

Post by unoti » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 5:12 PM UTC

Learning to code is hard, and everyone's specific struggle is unique. The key issue though is why do they fail to learn, and that answer is the same for everyone that fails: they give up.

All kinds of mental talents can be helpful for learning to code, but tenacity is probably the most important. Better learning materials can be great, and they're getting better all the time, but they are still no substitute to an unshakable commitment to being a developer.

For my 12th birthday in about 1980, my grandparents heard I liked computers and bought me a college level textbook on microprocessors. I didn't understand a word of it when I first read it really. But I did read it, and re-read it, for a couple of years. And it's one of the key reasons I wasn't afraid of doing assembly language a while later when I got my first computer. The book was a terrible way to learn, and it was completely at the wrong skill level for me. But I was really into it and made up for my lack of capability with a tremendous commitment and huge amount of time, slurping up every bit of information on computers I could find.

You've only lost when you quit fighting.

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#19

Post by startuprob » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 5:20 PM UTC

unoti wrote: post #18

Learning to code is hard, and everyone's specific struggle is unique. The key issue though is why do they fail to learn, and that answer is the same for everyone that fails: they give up. All kinds of mental talents can be helpful for learning to code, but tenacity is probably the most important. Better learning materials can be great, and they're getting better all the time, but they are still no substitute to an un…

This is an incredible answer - persistence is absolutely key. What I'm exploring is how to make persistence efficient. How can we make it so that people don't have to spend that horribly inefficient time reading a textbook like that?

Re: Why is Learning to Code So Hard?

#20

Post by thejteam » Mon, Dec 17, 2012, 5:21 PM UTC

taeric wrote: post #16

Why do we think that coding is at all unique in this regard? Have you looked through your standard fare cook book? The leaps from step to step are sometimes astounding. Yet folks are usually able to pick that up. Same for sewing. Show me the typical sewing pattern and it looks like someone dropped some lines somewhere. How is anyone able to learn that?

It never ceases to amaze me that the IF..THEN..ELSE concept seems to be beyond the ability of my wife to comprehend, but she can do things with knitting needles that are far more complex. She once tried to explain a "simple" knitting concept and all I could do is nod and realize that this is what she feels like while looking at a computer screen.