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The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

arxiv.org

11–20 of 77 posts

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#11
for a lot of the article i was mentally replacing "ai" with "calculator" and going "yeah we will just need longer education times. more schooling etc."

but the phrasing of "who pays for the increased schooling times?" is a good one. i think "debt" can be a decent way to conceptualize the cost and repayment of training someone. feels evil to say, but viewing people as firms you can invest in and expect returns upon. you know not all loans will be repayed, but hopefully they'll average to a profit. (risk management etc.)

student loans are. a decent example. the government/private enterprise gives money to pay for education, then this is repayed, providing a financial incentive for paying for someone else's longer schooling timelines. firms investing in training can be viewed as an extension of student loans. but then ah, there are countless stories of how debtor/creditor relationships can be exploited. indentured servitude etc. there are a lot of complications coming to mind. also "altruistic" people who give without expectation of repayment. or the divide between like, communal vs individualistic cultures. (individualism, i argue, encourages the formalization of debt, as opposed to a more communal culture where the expectation of repayment is informal.) you could do math on how many people pay vs how many people benefit, who is the biggest stakeholder, etc.

but i am on my lunch break and need to get back to my work. good article tho. good topic to bring up.

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" skill decline is real" Is this -> More people that are not devs, are using AI to create things, and are skilling up to a mediocre level? or Is this -> Existing experts, are actually loosing there skills? Using AI is reducing someone already known skills.

> More people that are not devs, are using AI to create things, and are skilling up to a mediocre level? What skills are being developed by non-devs prompting AI to churn out code they don't understand? Note that I'm not debating if the code is good or works or whatever, I'm asking if any real skills are being developed merely by prompting AI towards some goal.

I don't think it is zero.

If they are producing code, there is some knowledge being absorbed. Nobody is using AI to create an app is learning zero.

Its just what they are learning, is not as much as they think, and really random, not-structured. Like reading just a few random chapter of a book across multiple classes. They get a smattering of ad-hoc tidbits of knowledge.

I am really worried if using AI is reducing someone's already gained knowledge. Moving someone backwards. That has me a bit more scared.

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#13
post #2

For anyone that does LLM supported work it's crystal clear that skill decline is real. Surprisingly, the leadership at my work doesn't give rats ass about it. They published AI engineering manifesto, pushing for loops, workflows, advocating for producing many times more code. All of this ignoring the elephant in the room.

" skill decline is real" Is this -> More people that are not devs, are using AI to create things, and are skilling up to a mediocre level? or Is this -> Existing experts, are actually loosing there skills? Using AI is reducing someone already known skills.

Definitely the latter.

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#15
post #2

For anyone that does LLM supported work it's crystal clear that skill decline is real. Surprisingly, the leadership at my work doesn't give rats ass about it. They published AI engineering manifesto, pushing for loops, workflows, advocating for producing many times more code. All of this ignoring the elephant in the room.

" skill decline is real" Is this -> More people that are not devs, are using AI to create things, and are skilling up to a mediocre level? or Is this -> Existing experts, are actually loosing there skills? Using AI is reducing someone already known skills.

Both?

AI is good enough to generate a first pass for an increasingly large number of projects. An engineer using AI can create an even larger amount.

But muscle memory and expertise are not fixed. They fade over time without use. If you're no longer writing code yourself, you'll get rusty on syntax in the short term. In the long term, you'll get rusty on code structure and layout.

But many engineers are no longer reviewing code either. Reviewing code written by an AI is now the bottleneck, so you're expected to allow AI to review it as well.

So we have a group of people who are no longer engaging in either the writing of the code, or the analysis of the code that's written.

Obviously, this would lead to skill loss.

Many would argue that they're not truly losing skills, because they're more engaged in the grander architecture of the code. To that I would say--your job title says engineer, not architect.

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More people that are not devs, are using AI to create things, and are skilling up to a mediocre level? What skills are being developed by non-devs prompting AI to churn out code they don't understand? Note that I'm not debating if the code is good or works or whatever, I'm asking if any real skills are being developed merely by prompting AI towards some goal.

I don't think it is zero. If they are producing code, there is some knowledge being absorbed. Nobody is using AI to create an app is learning zero. Its just what they are learning, is not as much as they think, and really random, not-structured. Like reading just a few random chapter of a book across multiple classes. They get a smattering of ad-hoc tidbits of knowledge. I am really worried if using AI is reducing so…

> If they are producing code, there is some knowledge being absorbed. Nobody is using AI to create an app is learning zero

Maybe not actually absolutely zero, but it's much closer to zero than what they would learn creating the app themselves

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#17
My approach is to write a bit of totally AI-free code every day. So after a day of Claude, I'll spend at least 30 mins wrestling with something. The gnarlier the better, e.g.leet code or Project Euler-type stuff. I think of it as like lifting weights for the mind. The more I struggle at the edge of my knowledge and skill the better.

The other thing is to give your agent a skill not to solve certain key problems unless explicitly prompted. Write the scaffolding sure, but leave the juicy parts alone. And if I get stuck, I have it enter into a dialogue with me, nudging me towards understanding.

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#18
post #2

For anyone that does LLM supported work it's crystal clear that skill decline is real. Surprisingly, the leadership at my work doesn't give rats ass about it. They published AI engineering manifesto, pushing for loops, workflows, advocating for producing many times more code. All of this ignoring the elephant in the room.

" skill decline is real" Is this -> More people that are not devs, are using AI to create things, and are skilling up to a mediocre level? or Is this -> Existing experts, are actually loosing there skills? Using AI is reducing someone already known skills.

I think as an existing expert in my field (robot devops) what I feel most strongly is not that I'm losing my skills but rather than I'm losing my nerve.

Like, problems that I would previously dig into on my own, poking at this and that log file to try to understand what happened to get a system into a particular state, now claude is mediating most of those kinds of interactions and it is the one doing the first pass surfacing of "okay I discovered X, Y, and Z things that are hinky, and I'm not totally sure yet what this all means, but let's look together."

Nowadays I feel almost naked looking at a terminal where I'm typing each character myself. A lot of the old instincts around tab completion and grepping through the --help output of every tool, all that stuff has atrophied somewhat. Maybe that is genuine skill decline?

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#19
post #7

A new and growing fear I have is that AI cuts off some of the most well-trodden pathways to intellectual growth. Every time the AI solves a problem that I would not have been able to efficiently solve alone, it has replaced an interaction that previously would have happened with a mentor/supervisor/code reviewer. This is faster for the person seeking the micro-assistance, but there is a flipside: fewer human-to-human…

>Every time the AI solves a problem that I would not have been able to efficiently solve alone, it has replaced an interaction that previously would have happened with a mentor/supervisor/code reviewer.

I suppose that Socrates would strongly agree, seeing how the same argument could be applied to learning from a book.

Re: The Tragedy of the Cognitive Commons

#20
post #2

For anyone that does LLM supported work it's crystal clear that skill decline is real. Surprisingly, the leadership at my work doesn't give rats ass about it. They published AI engineering manifesto, pushing for loops, workflows, advocating for producing many times more code. All of this ignoring the elephant in the room.

Cynically they may be banking (however misguided it turns out to be) on model skill in aggregate growing faster than the skills of their staff decline at which point, bin the staff, use the model. The hype from non-technical people about AI would make you think they already discovered AGI.

>> model skill in aggregate growing faster than the skills of their staff decline at which point, bin the staff, use the model.

How people in tech are aware they're training their replacements?

Or are we quickly approaching an apex where the people running these companies realize AI cannot completely replace human developers?

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