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The Sound of Inevitability

panoptica.com

11–19 of 19 posts

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being watched all the time seems nowhere near as bad as being kept in a cell or forced labor.

They are not mutually exclusive. Read up on the concept of a panopticon, it is just a form of prison that maximizes the oppression by surveillance by extending it into your own mind as a paranoid knowing that you are almost certainly seen at all times. Aside from that, it still has all the features of any other prison including compelled labor. It's just that you are deprived a sense of privacy even in your mind, on…

Privacy is less important to me than it is to you. I! think that your need for privacy is something you acquired, and could unacquire.

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not mutually exclusive. Read up on the concept of a panopticon, it is just a form of prison that maximizes the oppression by surveillance by extending it into your own mind as a paranoid knowing that you are almost certainly seen at all times. Aside from that, it still has all the features of any other prison including compelled labor. It's just that you are deprived a sense of privacy even in your mind, on…

Privacy is less important to me than it is to you. I! think that your need for privacy is something you acquired, and could unacquire.

While your statement may be true, you're clearly failing to grasp the concept; it isn't just about privacy, but about psychic sovereignty.

The crippling of the will is a prerequisite for living any kind of meaningful or fulfilling life. The eradication of one's privacy is just a means to the crippling of the will. So while you may THINK privacy is unimportant to you, if it were eradicated forcefully and totally, in perpetuity, you would be rendered essentially a brain in a jar -- for all intents and purposes, inert and incapable of self-expression.

If you don't have feelings about THAT, I'm going to assume you're a bot.

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is less important to me than it is to you. I! think that your need for privacy is something you acquired, and could unacquire.

While your statement may be true, you're clearly failing to grasp the concept; it isn't just about privacy, but about psychic sovereignty. The crippling of the will is a prerequisite for living any kind of meaningful or fulfilling life. The eradication of one's privacy is just a means to the crippling of the will. So while you may THINK privacy is unimportant to you, if it were eradicated forcefully and totally, in p…

how does being watched constrain my psychic sovereignty? I don't see the connection.

Being watched does not cause my freedom to see, do and think to be limited in any way, as far as I can tell.

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While your statement may be true, you're clearly failing to grasp the concept; it isn't just about privacy, but about psychic sovereignty. The crippling of the will is a prerequisite for living any kind of meaningful or fulfilling life. The eradication of one's privacy is just a means to the crippling of the will. So while you may THINK privacy is unimportant to you, if it were eradicated forcefully and totally, in p…

how does being watched constrain my psychic sovereignty? I don't see the connection. Being watched does not cause my freedom to see, do and think to be limited in any way, as far as I can tell.

[dead]

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While your statement may be true, you're clearly failing to grasp the concept; it isn't just about privacy, but about psychic sovereignty. The crippling of the will is a prerequisite for living any kind of meaningful or fulfilling life. The eradication of one's privacy is just a means to the crippling of the will. So while you may THINK privacy is unimportant to you, if it were eradicated forcefully and totally, in p…

how does being watched constrain my psychic sovereignty? I don't see the connection. Being watched does not cause my freedom to see, do and think to be limited in any way, as far as I can tell.

Perhaps you should read about the topic before refuting it.

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does being watched constrain my psychic sovereignty? I don't see the connection. Being watched does not cause my freedom to see, do and think to be limited in any way, as far as I can tell.

Perhaps you should read about the topic before refuting it.

I didn't "refute the topic", I asked you a question. So please answer it.

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you should read about the topic before refuting it.

I didn't "refute the topic", I asked you a question. So please answer it.

the short answer is that you internalize the gaze of your oppressor, which means you install a self-censorship mechanism (to prevent what you come to perceive as the negative consequences of using your will, which comes with repeated punishment / negative reinforcement of some kind). You yourself become your own oppressor and likely incur psychological damage (trauma) that is irreversible so long as you are in the panopticon.

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't "refute the topic", I asked you a question. So please answer it.

the short answer is that you internalize the gaze of your oppressor, which means you install a self-censorship mechanism (to prevent what you come to perceive as the negative consequences of using your will, which comes with repeated punishment / negative reinforcement of some kind). You yourself become your own oppressor and likely incur psychological damage (trauma) that is irreversible so long as you are in the pa…

I think that you are unnecessarily conflating being-watched, being-judged and being-punished.

Re: The Sound of Inevitability

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the short answer is that you internalize the gaze of your oppressor, which means you install a self-censorship mechanism (to prevent what you come to perceive as the negative consequences of using your will, which comes with repeated punishment / negative reinforcement of some kind). You yourself become your own oppressor and likely incur psychological damage (trauma) that is irreversible so long as you are in the pa…

I think that you are unnecessarily conflating being-watched, being-judged and being-punished.

I think it's super obvious you aren't at all familiar with the concepts you're arguing about. You're the classic armchair expert who knows nothing and thinks himself superior for it.

Here are some relevant quotes that illustrate that there is an immense theory and body of knowledge behind what I'm saying - direct from the source from which I'm drawing (Foucault's writings about panopticon as the perfection of oppressive state power, a sort of anti-christ-like inverted image of the enlightenment's progress)

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/252435/pdf

“Panopticism” from Discipline & Punish: The Birth of the Prison

> "The Panopticon is a marvelous machine which... produces homogeneous effects of power."

> “Traditionally, power was what was seen, what was shown, and what was manifested...Disciplinary power, on the other hand, is exercised through its invisibility; at the same time it imposes on those whom it subjects a principle of compulsory visibility. In discipline, it is the subjects who have to be seen. Their visibility assures the hold of the power that is exercised over them. It is this fact of being constantly seen, of being able always to be seen, that maintains the disciplined individual in his subjection. And the examination is the technique by which power, instead of emitting the signs of its potency, instead of imposing its mark on its subjects, holds them in a mechanism of objectification. In this space of domination, disciplinary power manifests its potency, essentially by arranging objects. The examination is, as it were, the ceremony of this objectification.”

> “A real subjection is born mechanically from a fictitious relation [...] He who is subjected to a field of visibility, and who knows it, assumes responsibility for the constraints of power; he makes them play spontaneously upon himself; he inscribed in himself the power relation in which he simultaneously plays both roles; he becomes the principle of his own subjection.”

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