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Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

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Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#11

Post by charcircuit »

josefritzishere wrote: post #8
charcircuit wrote: post #4

>Tax breaks for proposed and potential data centers could easily cost billions of dollars Does the author not understand what a tax break is? Tax payers are not giving billions of dollars to the company building a data center.

They kind do cost the public millions of dollars. Land that once was taxed, stops generating tax revenue, (depending on the type of tax break) but the data center requires much more infrastructure: roads, lanes, sidewalks, lights, power transport, utilities. Then the public pays for all that infrastructure through fees and taxes. then the data center competes for utilities, driving up those prices. There's little to…

>stops generating tax revenue

You have it backwards. That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one.

>the data center requires much more infrastructure

Regardless of if the infrastructure upgrade is not fully funded by the company building the center, this cost is independent from the tax break.

Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#12

Post by zdragnar »

gyanchawdhary wrote: post #9
zdragnar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all sites are equally suited for a data center. This is especially true when you look at plans that allow data centers to operate off of on-site generators prior to full grid connection. There's no reason data centers should be exempt from noise pollution controls near residential areas, and yet there have been cases where this is true. Local politicians and commissioners also seem to be poorly suited to understa…

I see. So you are saying that they are poorly suited to understanding the impact of DCs .. because obviously the job estimates .. vested interests (why not) .. basically you are saying “I know that others (politicians and commissioners) are dumb/lack smarts/gullable but I’m not since I’m so wise .. got it.

> “I know that others (politicians and commissioners) are dumb/lack smarts/gullable but I’m not since I’m so wise

Not at all. I'm saying that there are competing interests in placing these projects, and the people speaking up against them are making their interests heard. Municipal commissioners / planners also may not have experience with this kind of project, or underestimate issues that can be caused.

Take for example this: https://denverite.com/2026/07/21/denver-data-center-noise-co...

The DC has 14 diesel generators to supply 18 megawatts of power. That level of noise and combustion exhaust is utterly unsuitable for residential zoning, and yet that's what has happened.

Here's another example, with similar details: https://wjla.com/news/local/data-center-noise-fumes-create-f...

These people (and the others in the class action lawsuits and other news articles that are easy to find with a simple search) are NOT merely a "non-specific cause-of-the-day for stay-at-home moms to complain about". There are genuine complaints due to a failure to properly site the DCs.

Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#14

Post by bigbadfeline »

charcircuit wrote: post #11
josefritzishere wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kind do cost the public millions of dollars. Land that once was taxed, stops generating tax revenue, (depending on the type of tax break) but the data center requires much more infrastructure: roads, lanes, sidewalks, lights, power transport, utilities. Then the public pays for all that infrastructure through fees and taxes. then the data center competes for utilities, driving up those prices. There's little to…

>stops generating tax revenue You have it backwards. That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one. >the data center requires much more infrastructure Regardless of if the infrastructure upgrade is not fully funded by the company building the center, this cost is independent from the tax break.

> That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one.

Wrong. The tax revenue "doesn't go away", it's shifted to the other taxpayers who foot the bill for those who don't pay. That's why tax-breaks are recognized as subsidies by everyone who knows something about the topic.

Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#15

Post by cucumber3732842 »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #14
charcircuit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>stops generating tax revenue You have it backwards. That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one. >the data center requires much more infrastructure Regardless of if the infrastructure upgrade is not fully funded by the company building the center, this cost is independent from the tax break.

> That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one. Wrong. The tax revenue "doesn't go away", it's shifted to the other taxpayers who foot the bill for those who don't pay. That's why tax-breaks are recognized as subsidies by everyone who knows something about the topic.

So if I don't develop my land (because the government won't let me do so affordably, lol) and pay $0ish that's better than if some big moneyed interests that can pay their way through the regulatory spaghetti you've concocted and develop something, anything there? Even if they pay no tax on the land development there's still taxable activity going on there. Someone is paying tax on the toilet paper in the employee bathroom and whatnot. And of course the actual productivity gets taxed too (investment income, capital gains or whatever) or the income of the accountant you hire to prevent that stuff from getting taxed gets taxed. In any case it's still very net positive.

IDK if you've ever driven through Kentucky but it's the kind of state that isn't exactly lacking for places to put odious industry.

Why do you even care about some town in Kentucky's tax receipts anyway? Lord knows they'll probably use it on abstinence only sex ed.

Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#16

Post by _--__--__ »

zdragnar wrote: post #12
gyanchawdhary wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see. So you are saying that they are poorly suited to understanding the impact of DCs .. because obviously the job estimates .. vested interests (why not) .. basically you are saying “I know that others (politicians and commissioners) are dumb/lack smarts/gullable but I’m not since I’m so wise .. got it.

> “I know that others (politicians and commissioners) are dumb/lack smarts/gullable but I’m not since I’m so wise Not at all. I'm saying that there are competing interests in placing these projects, and the people speaking up against them are making their interests heard. Municipal commissioners / planners also may not have experience with this kind of project, or underestimate issues that can be caused. Take for exa…

I'm from Jefferson county KY, the FAA had to fund a sound proofing program for a huge part of that area because one of the 5 busiest cargo airports in the world is smack in the middle of Louisville metro. Having lived in NoVA as well, the data center noise really doesn't compare (and there's no risk of the data centers dropping a 100 ton firebomb on your home the way UPS did last year).

Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#17

Post by charcircuit »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #14
charcircuit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>stops generating tax revenue You have it backwards. That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one. >the data center requires much more infrastructure Regardless of if the infrastructure upgrade is not fully funded by the company building the center, this cost is independent from the tax break.

> That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one. Wrong. The tax revenue "doesn't go away", it's shifted to the other taxpayers who foot the bill for those who don't pay. That's why tax-breaks are recognized as subsidies by everyone who knows something about the topic.

Taxes are calculated individually and are independent of one another. They do not get shared among the tax base. Other people paying property tax do not have to pay the property tax for the data center's land.

As a thought experiment let's say I am in a state with a sales tax. If I buy a game console from a different state that doesn't have sales tax it doesn't cost the tax payers of the state I'm in anything yet we enter a reality where I am happier than in an alternate reality where I did not buy it. The taxes paid are the same in both sceneries, but there is more happiness in society in one sceneries.

Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#18

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

charcircuit wrote: post #17
bigbadfeline wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one. Wrong. The tax revenue "doesn't go away", it's shifted to the other taxpayers who foot the bill for those who don't pay. That's why tax-breaks are recognized as subsidies by everyone who knows something about the topic.

Taxes are calculated individually and are independent of one another. They do not get shared among the tax base. Other people paying property tax do not have to pay the property tax for the data center's land. As a thought experiment let's say I am in a state with a sales tax. If I buy a game console from a different state that doesn't have sales tax it doesn't cost the tax payers of the state I'm in anything yet we…

> Taxes are calculated individually and are independent of one another.

They are not independent. Total tax revenue is the key metric and it is sum of the individual components. If that value is not large enough taxes go up or services go down or both. So if the data center is not paying property taxes but is using services like road building and maintenance, police protection, fire department, water and sewage infrastructure, etc, then those costs ultimately get passed to the people who are paying property taxes.

Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#19

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #15
bigbadfeline wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That tax was a cost for the property owner. If the tax revenue goes away then there is a cost for no one. Wrong. The tax revenue "doesn't go away", it's shifted to the other taxpayers who foot the bill for those who don't pay. That's why tax-breaks are recognized as subsidies by everyone who knows something about the topic.

So if I don't develop my land (because the government won't let me do so affordably, lol) and pay $0ish that's better than if some big moneyed interests that can pay their way through the regulatory spaghetti you've concocted and develop something, anything there? Even if they pay no tax on the land development there's still taxable activity going on there. Someone is paying tax on the toilet paper in the employee ba…

It depends on what the land is developed for of course. 'Something' is not always better than 'nothing. I'm sure you can imagine land being developed in a way that is a net negative to the local community and economy.

Re: Is Kentucky about to give billions in tax breaks to data centers?

#20

Post by charcircuit »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #18
charcircuit wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are calculated individually and are independent of one another. They do not get shared among the tax base. Other people paying property tax do not have to pay the property tax for the data center's land. As a thought experiment let's say I am in a state with a sales tax. If I buy a game console from a different state that doesn't have sales tax it doesn't cost the tax payers of the state I'm in anything yet we…

> Taxes are calculated individually and are independent of one another. They are not independent. Total tax revenue is the key metric and it is sum of the individual components. If that value is not large enough taxes go up or services go down or both. So if the data center is not paying property taxes but is using services like road building and maintenance, police protection, fire department, water and sewage infra…

>taxes go up or services go down or both

Or fraud goes down. Or useless wastes of money is no longer tolerated. Or the government is made more profitable. It is definitely possible to do more with less.

Anyways you are trying to distract from the point as what you are arguing is not what this conversation is about I think. Unless you think all of those services will require raising their prices by billions of dollars despite somehow operating under a budget where that same land was not bringing in billions of dollars of property tax.

The tax payers are not paying billions of dollars as a cost to enable the tax cut to happen.

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