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NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

nsf.gov

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Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#11

Post by lokar »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #8
alephnerd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s already a 3-4 year advanced degree in the United States with an optional thesis component... There isn't. And if you are trying to snarkily describe an MS, then most MS programs are too short. > So why are they calling it a doctorate? I don’t see the point. It’s not like the NSF under this administration is particularly fond of STEM doctorates. The I-PhD is basically a formalization of industry-sponsored Ph…

> There isn't. My coworkers holding such degrees would beg to differ. > And if you are trying to snarkily describe an MS, then most MS programs are too short. It wasn’t snarky, it was a listing of common points between the two. I don’t see what distinguishes this from a MS. A year still isn’t enough time to write a doctoral-level thesis, so if the I-PhD is supposed to represent a “longer MS” then it’s still insuffici…

Where does an MS take more then 2 years?

Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#12

Post by lokar »

alephnerd wrote: post #7
TimorousBestie wrote: post #4

Very perplexing. There’s already a 3-4 year advanced degree in the United States with an optional thesis component that companies in relevant industries can intervene in and direct if they so desire. So why are they calling it a doctorate? I don’t see the point. It’s not like the NSF under this administration is particularly fond of STEM doctorates. I’m open to any theories about what the real point of this is.

> There’s already a 3-4 year advanced degree in the United States with an optional thesis component... There isn't. And if you are trying to snarkily describe an MS, then most MS programs are too short. > So why are they calling it a doctorate? I don’t see the point. It’s not like the NSF under this administration is particularly fond of STEM doctorates. The I-PhD is basically a formalization of industry-sponsored Ph…

Is this for people who already have an MS, so 6 total?

Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#13

Post by guitarsteve »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #4

Very perplexing. There’s already a 3-4 year advanced degree in the United States with an optional thesis component that companies in relevant industries can intervene in and direct if they so desire. So why are they calling it a doctorate? I don’t see the point. It’s not like the NSF under this administration is particularly fond of STEM doctorates. I’m open to any theories about what the real point of this is.

Sorry, I’m a bit thrown off. What degree are you referring to?

Masters is usually about 2 years, though it could be longer in some cases or if worked on part-time. PhD is often 4-6+.

What 3-4 year degree did you mean? Bachelors?

Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#14

Post by alephnerd »

lokar wrote: post #12
alephnerd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s already a 3-4 year advanced degree in the United States with an optional thesis component... There isn't. And if you are trying to snarkily describe an MS, then most MS programs are too short. > So why are they calling it a doctorate? I don’t see the point. It’s not like the NSF under this administration is particularly fond of STEM doctorates. The I-PhD is basically a formalization of industry-sponsored Ph…

Is this for people who already have an MS, so 6 total?

No. It's basically allocating funding for 250 PhD seats across a couple top engineering programs (CMU, UCSD, UIUC, Columbia SEAS, Penn SEAS, etc) with the expectation that said research would be linked with an industrial partner (eg. HPE, Bayer, Nvidia)

Edit: I just reread your comment. I think it is for students who are already doing their MS or have previously done so and are applying to PhD programs

Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#15

Post by nxobject »

alephnerd wrote: post #9
nxobject wrote: post #5

If you want to skip the fluff, the actual funded program abstract here: https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/show-award/?AWD_ID=2624416 Appropriately enough for a pilot, there's a structured usual cohort-mentoring and outcomes evaluation component. (NSF brings 3 years of $$$, but as it is, it doesn't seem like attempt to nudge people screwed over by GRFP restrictions towards industry.)

I'd recommend the I-PhD's page instead of the NSF grant as it goes deeper into the partners as well as the program. https://uidp.org/i-phd-scholars/

Looking at the $$$ awarded -- that's interesting: $37k/year, and while there's a $22,000 "ancillary expenses" component, institutions administer it, and can use it like any other indirect cost $$$. Conversely, industry funders have to stump up at least $100,000/year per student.

Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#16

Post by lokar »

alephnerd wrote: post #14
lokar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this for people who already have an MS, so 6 total?

No. It's basically allocating funding for 250 PhD seats across a couple top engineering programs (CMU, UCSD, UIUC, Columbia SEAS, Penn SEAS, etc) with the expectation that said research would be linked with an industrial partner (eg. HPE, Bayer, Nvidia) Edit: I just reread your comment. I think it is for students who are already doing their MS or have previously done so and are applying to PhD programs

Huh, odd. I could see trying to get back to everyone normally finishing in 6. But 4 seems really short.

Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#18

Post by nxobject »

alephnerd wrote: post #9
nxobject wrote: post #5

If you want to skip the fluff, the actual funded program abstract here: https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/show-award/?AWD_ID=2624416 Appropriately enough for a pilot, there's a structured usual cohort-mentoring and outcomes evaluation component. (NSF brings 3 years of $$$, but as it is, it doesn't seem like attempt to nudge people screwed over by GRFP restrictions towards industry.)

I'd recommend the I-PhD's page instead of the NSF grant as it goes deeper into the partners as well as the program. https://uidp.org/i-phd-scholars/

Thanks - the program guide at the very bottom seems to have the most detail.

https://uidp.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/UIDP-I-PhD-Schol...

Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#19

Post by math_dandy »

My wife did her mathematics PhD under an analogous structure in Germany where it’s fairly common. She was supervised by a professor at the University of Munich and a lab at Bosch, wrote and defended a thesis as usual. Employed in industry immediately after graduating. A great experience.

Re: NSF pilots 4-year PhDs with industry research placements

#20

Post by nxobject »

alephnerd wrote: post #14
lokar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this for people who already have an MS, so 6 total?

No. It's basically allocating funding for 250 PhD seats across a couple top engineering programs (CMU, UCSD, UIUC, Columbia SEAS, Penn SEAS, etc) with the expectation that said research would be linked with an industrial partner (eg. HPE, Bayer, Nvidia) Edit: I just reread your comment. I think it is for students who are already doing their MS or have previously done so and are applying to PhD programs

Re: Bayer - the non-health industry side? I'm surprised NIH hasn't rolled out something like this earlier, to be honest, with their increasing emphasis on commercialisation.
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