Can someone more familiar with the technology explain how necessary it is for the inverter to be internet connected? This seems like the kind of cloud dependency that people on HN would usually be opposed to.
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FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
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Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#12Can someone more familiar with the technology explain how necessary it is for the inverter to be internet connected? This seems like the kind of cloud dependency that people on HN would usually be opposed to.
A small solar inverter doesn't need to be internet connected, but solar inverter app monitoring lets you track energy production, view real-time power flows, and check device status using a smartphone or tablet. So automaticaly you could get all the IoT security issues. https://solar-assistant.io/ https://apps.apple.com/us/app/solarman-smart/id1469487897 If an attacker could control a significant portion of solar inv…
With sufficiently badly designed systems (lack of sufficient manual interlocks), it should also be possible to cause co-ordinated widespread fires and property damage or the like, with resulting loss of life.
There was a good grid generator demonstration years ago (aurora generator cyber attack), and most cheap inverters are likely even dumber than what was demonstrated there.
Likely? Probably not with current geopolitics.
Possible? Hard to say, but certainly unlikely to be completely impossible.
Security being the S in IoT and all, and most of these inverter stacks are pretty typical of IoT.
Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#13> prove their code cannot be manipulated remotely
That's not technically possible, surely.
Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#14Can someone more familiar with the technology explain how necessary it is for the inverter to be internet connected? This seems like the kind of cloud dependency that people on HN would usually be opposed to.
A small solar inverter doesn't need to be internet connected, but solar inverter app monitoring lets you track energy production, view real-time power flows, and check device status using a smartphone or tablet. So automaticaly you could get all the IoT security issues. https://solar-assistant.io/ https://apps.apple.com/us/app/solarman-smart/id1469487897 If an attacker could control a significant portion of solar inv…
> A small solar inverter doesn't need to be internet connected, but solar inverter app monitoring lets you track energy production, view real-time power flows, and check device status using a smartphone or tablet
... over USB or Bluetooth. Internet is solely for convenience.
Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#15Can someone more familiar with the technology explain how necessary it is for the inverter to be internet connected? This seems like the kind of cloud dependency that people on HN would usually be opposed to.
Its sold to consumers as stats & diagnostics. Companies do this to sell your data and in hopes of roping you into recurring revenue schemes.
Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#16Not like the threat was in the room with us this entire time.
Looking at all those APC UPSes that had the TLSstorm exploit and possibility of actual burnout and fire...
But sure. It's the evil evil Chinese shit that's the problem.
I feel so much safer knowing we banned things like Autel's drones, random power inverters, and Unitree robots, but not Autel's key programmers kids are using to steal cars!
Funny thing searching "autel teenager stolen cars" and seeing hundreds of police releases of kids getting busted with guns and Autel tablets and a shitton of universally programmable keys. I feel so much safer knowing the Chinese drones can't spy on me while the kids steal my car. :)
Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#17Can someone more familiar with the technology explain how necessary it is for the inverter to be internet connected? This seems like the kind of cloud dependency that people on HN would usually be opposed to.
A small solar inverter doesn't need to be internet connected, but solar inverter app monitoring lets you track energy production, view real-time power flows, and check device status using a smartphone or tablet. So automaticaly you could get all the IoT security issues. https://solar-assistant.io/ https://apps.apple.com/us/app/solarman-smart/id1469487897 If an attacker could control a significant portion of solar inv…
None of this requires internet connection.
Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#18while I totally understand the risk of foreign hardware and firmware, this is exclusively a sabotage of green power development confirmed by the methodology and speed of implementation of it.
blocking related projects by forcing a supply chain re-co figuration and disconnect from grid for non compliancy it's a clear targeted sabotage and does not mitigate the risk! -> us produced inverter with asian chips and firmware anyway!
this is only devolution and it can happen only there, especially WITHOUT a clear transition or migration plan that considers hardware, industry and infrastructure!
if more power is needed, and power costs are increasing, why force disconnect and sabotage development for green power? dont forget to do 1+1 with the reality of your state dear citizens!
Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#19while I totally understand the risk of foreign hardware and firmware, this is exclusively a sabotage of green power development confirmed by the methodology and speed of implementation of it. blocking related projects by forcing a supply chain re-co figuration and disconnect from grid for non compliancy it's a clear targeted sabotage and does not mitigate the risk! -> us produced inverter with asian chips and firmwar…
Counterpoint - building out even more critical infrastructure which might as well be coming pre-rootkitted by a known foreign adversary seems quite dumb?
Re: FCC bans foreign-produced solar inverters, grid lockout begins today
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
A small solar inverter doesn't need to be internet connected, but solar inverter app monitoring lets you track energy production, view real-time power flows, and check device status using a smartphone or tablet. So automaticaly you could get all the IoT security issues. https://solar-assistant.io/ https://apps.apple.com/us/app/solarman-smart/id1469487897 If an attacker could control a significant portion of solar inv…
None of this requires internet connection.
How do you expect your typical mobile app to work through NAT, etc. without an internet connection? For your typical ‘dumb’ home user, anyway?