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You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

nytimes.com

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Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#11

Post by ericmay »

verdverm wrote: post #10
ericmay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I mentioned Iran in my mind I was including all of their terrorist proxies (Hamas/Palestine, Hezbollah, Yemen, &c.). I didn't intend to rank order here. I should have been more clear - my fault. > America is destroying boats in the western hemisphere with missiles instead of interdicting and following international law. The list goes on... Yea but that's a misunderstanding on the part of those who look at these…

I find it hard to debate when you cannot acknowledge our own (american) propaganda and the effect it has on our people. Watching international news will show you things you cannot find from domestic sources. France24 is my primary. Another thing you will see is far more decorum in reporting.

I acknowledge it but too often it's the primary topic and I think it's of less importance. What are the facts and what policies and such are we pursuing? That's what is important. What are your biases? What international news are you watching that is feeding you misinformation about the current state of the world? This goes both ways.

I'm not sure specifically what you wanted to debate though, but I'd be happy to do so. France24 is fine but you have to remember that international news is also extremely subject to certain biases and propaganda effects despite the marketing around transparency. I watch international news, and read and speak very basic French and have traveled throughout the world so I'm well acquainted with such topics.

I'm admittedly a little disappointed that when you found someone seemingly disagreeing with you that you immediately turned to suggesting that I need to acknowledge some unknown propaganda effect and that such an effect colors my worldview or understanding of various topics to such a degree that I must not know what I'm talking about or whatever.

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#12

Post by verdverm »

ericmay wrote: post #11
verdverm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to debate when you cannot acknowledge our own (american) propaganda and the effect it has on our people. Watching international news will show you things you cannot find from domestic sources. France24 is my primary. Another thing you will see is far more decorum in reporting.

I acknowledge it but too often it's the primary topic and I think it's of less importance. What are the facts and what policies and such are we pursuing? That's what is important. What are your biases? What international news are you watching that is feeding you misinformation about the current state of the world? This goes both ways. I'm not sure specifically what you wanted to debate though, but I'd be happy to do…

> some unknown propaganda effect

The number of Americans that believe the 2020 elections were stolen is one place where we can see effect (I make no assumptions about your position on this topic)

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#13

Post by ericmay »

verdverm wrote: post #12
ericmay wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I acknowledge it but too often it's the primary topic and I think it's of less importance. What are the facts and what policies and such are we pursuing? That's what is important. What are your biases? What international news are you watching that is feeding you misinformation about the current state of the world? This goes both ways. I'm not sure specifically what you wanted to debate though, but I'd be happy to do…

> some unknown propaganda effect The number of Americans that believe the 2020 elections were stolen is one place where we can see effect (I make no assumptions about your position on this topic)

I'm not following your point here. Americans are subject to propaganda? Yes so are every other country and people on the planet.

And no, the election wasn't stolen.

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#14

Post by rbanffy »

ericmay wrote: post #9
verdverm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason people most cite for putting America on the list with Russia is that we started a war that affects the entire world. America is destroying boats in the western hemisphere with missiles instead of interdicting and following international law. The list goes on... There are other places that ought be on that list before Cuba, like Yemen, where missiles are actually flying from and disrupting a second…

When I mentioned Iran in my mind I was including all of their terrorist proxies (Hamas/Palestine, Hezbollah, Yemen, &c.). I didn't intend to rank order here. I should have been more clear - my fault. > America is destroying boats in the western hemisphere with missiles instead of interdicting and following international law. The list goes on... Yea but that's a misunderstanding on the part of those who look at these…

> that's a misunderstanding on the part of those who look at these activities and then think they know what's going on

So, bombing civilian boats rather than intercepting them, then bombing the survivors, is not what it looks it is. Would you like to explain what it is?

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#15

Post by rbanffy »

ericmay wrote: post #7
verdverm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuba entering the short list of problem nations is certainly the effect of US propaganda efforts to shift the hyperbole window Generally agree with your propositions and I suspect non-Americans would put America on that list before Cuba

I used to believe that too but with more revelations coming out about partnerships with Russia and China, work to support and prop up Venezuela’s dictatorship and the negative effects caused by that (mass migration, economic catastrophe, &c.) I’ve changed my tune quite a bit. > I suspect non-Americans would put America on that list before Cuba Yes perhaps. That goes to show how effective anti-western and anti-democra…

> anti-democracy propaganda

As in when the president (who was elected) claims widespread election fraud without any evidence?

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#16

Post by ericmay »

rbanffy wrote: post #14
ericmay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I mentioned Iran in my mind I was including all of their terrorist proxies (Hamas/Palestine, Hezbollah, Yemen, &c.). I didn't intend to rank order here. I should have been more clear - my fault. > America is destroying boats in the western hemisphere with missiles instead of interdicting and following international law. The list goes on... Yea but that's a misunderstanding on the part of those who look at these…

> that's a misunderstanding on the part of those who look at these activities and then think they know what's going on So, bombing civilian boats rather than intercepting them, then bombing the survivors, is not what it looks it is. Would you like to explain what it is?

Sure. Drug and human traffickers don't operate military boats?

If another country wants to use its navy and sail to South America and spend money intercepting these folks to stop criminal behavior, that would be great. Less of my tax dollars being used. Otherwise it seems to me we can take care of the problem ourselves as we see fit. No different than drone strikes under the Obama administration. Some of course see an issue with both, but I don't.

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#17

Post by ericmay »

rbanffy wrote: post #15
ericmay wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to believe that too but with more revelations coming out about partnerships with Russia and China, work to support and prop up Venezuela’s dictatorship and the negative effects caused by that (mass migration, economic catastrophe, &c.) I’ve changed my tune quite a bit. > I suspect non-Americans would put America on that list before Cuba Yes perhaps. That goes to show how effective anti-western and anti-democra…

> anti-democracy propaganda As in when the president (who was elected) claims widespread election fraud without any evidence?

Sure, I think he should be in jail for January 6th and his claims about election fraud are stupid and incorrect. (Anti-democracy propaganda)

But the full quote from me included anti-western propaganda. I am not that interested in whatever Donald Trump says in the context of this conversation because it's just an attempt at distracting the conversation around the actions taking place outside of the US, whether that's Russian or Chinese election interference, or other various propaganda tools that are utilized in America, or the western world more broadly.

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#18

Post by sebastiennight »

ericmay wrote: post #16
rbanffy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's a misunderstanding on the part of those who look at these activities and then think they know what's going on So, bombing civilian boats rather than intercepting them, then bombing the survivors, is not what it looks it is. Would you like to explain what it is?

Sure. Drug and human traffickers don't operate military boats? If another country wants to use its navy and sail to South America and spend money intercepting these folks to stop criminal behavior, that would be great. Less of my tax dollars being used. Otherwise it seems to me we can take care of the problem ourselves as we see fit. No different than drone strikes under the Obama administration. Some of course see a…

> human traffickers

Wait, I might be a bit out of the loop here, but are you saying that "double tapping" boats loaded with victims of human trafficking is "stopping criminal behavior"?

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#19

Post by ericmay »

sebastiennight wrote: post #18
ericmay wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Drug and human traffickers don't operate military boats? If another country wants to use its navy and sail to South America and spend money intercepting these folks to stop criminal behavior, that would be great. Less of my tax dollars being used. Otherwise it seems to me we can take care of the problem ourselves as we see fit. No different than drone strikes under the Obama administration. Some of course see a…

> human traffickers Wait, I might be a bit out of the loop here, but are you saying that "double tapping" boats loaded with victims of human trafficking is "stopping criminal behavior"?

Yes you’re out of the loop. No, that’s not what is being said. Hope that helps.

Re: You Aren't Going to Like What Comes After America

#20

Post by sebastiennight »

ericmay wrote: post #19
sebastiennight wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> human traffickers Wait, I might be a bit out of the loop here, but are you saying that "double tapping" boats loaded with victims of human trafficking is "stopping criminal behavior"?

Yes you’re out of the loop. No, that’s not what is being said. Hope that helps.

Would you care to share any source indicating that any of these civilian boats that were destroyed, were carrying human traffickers (but, apparently, not any trafficked victims)?
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