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Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

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Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#11

Post by true_religion »

kysol wrote: post #7
GuiA wrote: post #2

I've always mused with the idea of creating a user-submitted-content based porn website. The base code can be whipped out in a few days, and getting traffic for that kind of thing seems to be super easy. The goal would then be to make minor money through smart advertising (most porn websites today are usability hell, with every single white space covered in ads; i'm sure one could do some smart conversion optimizatio…

I've been out of the loop for too long, but back in the day (when Tube sites were just starting up), it was getting harder and harder to make money. So many people were starting up, and Visa was cracking down hard on charge backs. The biggest issue back in the day was Content licencing, which with today's whole DMCA crap, I would expect it to be far worse on a user-generated content site. If you licensed images for a…

For the record, he's talking about user-generated content so even if users upload unlicenced materials he's covered by DMCA protections.

He won't have to worry about licencing content, since he won't knowingly use copyrighted content beyond what freebies are offered to CPA partners.

I think everything you're saying makes sense for a Paysite, but he's not a paysite---just an affiliate and traffic producer which is a bit more downstream.

As for dealing with the major players to have traffic funnelled through him, he won't be able to do that initially because (a) traffic trades require that you have traffic to trade and (b) you're going to want to have your traffic stream through organic links and SEM since you likely can't afford to pay for traffic for a non-paysite: the ROI just isn't there in advertising.

Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#12

Post by notatoad »

GuiA wrote: post #2

I've always mused with the idea of creating a user-submitted-content based porn website. The base code can be whipped out in a few days, and getting traffic for that kind of thing seems to be super easy. The goal would then be to make minor money through smart advertising (most porn websites today are usability hell, with every single white space covered in ads; i'm sure one could do some smart conversion optimizatio…

I question how much of the "user submitted porn" is actually user submitted. Flickr, YouTube, etc i buy that all the content is submitted by users. Porn sites, it seems far more likely that the content is mostly uploaded by paid staff. It's hard for me to believe that there are people who see a porn they like and think "wow, I should submit this to youporn". If you're going to build a porn site, the biggest part of the job is probably seeding it with content.

Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#13

Post by zalew »

_6tfp wrote: post #10
_6tfp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating your own porn site looks much easier then it is. You'll need a lot of traffic before you earn some bucks, and all competition is fighting for the traffic. But it's a fun thing to do! If you want to start out, I suggest to get yourself a domain name and use http://www.smutnode.com to setup a tube site in minutes.

Another tutorial for new people to the industry can be found on http://startapornsite.smutnode.com

you got a typo: win prices -> win prizes

Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#15

Post by Tharkun »

DanBlake wrote: post #9

The guy has to be making crazy bank. Wonder why he didnt just pay his taxes. When you are bringing in a likely 100m a year, what difference will another 10m make? I think the guys behind huge sites like this just have weird personality's that make them like to hack every system they can which obviously ends up in situations like this.

Breaking even on a small website is easy. Doing it on such a large scale, not so much. Never mind making a profit.

People have this unrealistic view of porn site owners, as being rolling in the dough. It's true for soeme, but they're a minority. Doing porn brings a lot of heat, not just because every tax man out there assumes you're cheating, but also because if anyone is geetting naked for you, you MUST be some kind evil human trafficer, and probably a child pornographer as well. It's a strange lil world. Sometimes I miss it.

Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#16

Post by true_religion »

rdl wrote: post #4
GuiA wrote: post #2

I've always mused with the idea of creating a user-submitted-content based porn website. The base code can be whipped out in a few days, and getting traffic for that kind of thing seems to be super easy. The goal would then be to make minor money through smart advertising (most porn websites today are usability hell, with every single white space covered in ads; i'm sure one could do some smart conversion optimizatio…

If I were to do it, I'd just run a porn site and a non porn site with the same code base. Then I could make money from porn while talking about the non porn side of the technology at parties or whatever. Also, I think there was a bit of a land grab in porn before; it has really consolidated to a few big players, with margins otherwise in decline. Manwin/youporn is one of those big players, from the article. The other…

Bit of backstory....

In the mid 2005s, the 'tube' sites emerged serving theoretically user-generated content in the vein of Youtube. In reality, very few actually focused on ameteur material, and most just had full videos or clips from paysites.

The ones with full videos were considered to be 'illegal' tubes but the adult market doesn't have an organization with the clout or lawyers equivalent of the RIAA so most of the content stayed up.

The tube sites made their money through advertising and through CPA affiliate programs for paysite networks. Paysites had a love-hate relationship with the tubes. On the one hand, they got traffic conversions. On the other hand, the tubes would use content without authorization which hurt the conversion ratios, and made the paysite content as a whole less valuable to surfers in the know.

Manwin was originally a paysite network, but unlike their competition they embraced the idea of tubes. They launched paid-content websites (under the Brazzers brand) while founding their own tube network (KeezMovies, PornHub).

That vertical integration gave them higher margins than the compeition---they owned both the traffic generators and the eventual paysites needed for conversions. As they became more successful, they went on a buying spree and through various mergers and name changes emerged with over 10 paysite networks under their brand as either wholly owned entities or content partners (e..g Playboy), and 8 of top ten tube sites.

As for margins....

I believe there was a margins slump from 2007 onwards due to the slump in the advertising market as a whole. But mainstream adprices are creeping upwards, so adult-side margins should also be improving.

> companies often sell for something like 1x earnings

AFAIK all deals are closed behind the scenes, and mostly between private parties. So the information on the sale price is not good.

Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#17

Post by kysol »

notatoad wrote: post #12
GuiA wrote: post #2

I've always mused with the idea of creating a user-submitted-content based porn website. The base code can be whipped out in a few days, and getting traffic for that kind of thing seems to be super easy. The goal would then be to make minor money through smart advertising (most porn websites today are usability hell, with every single white space covered in ads; i'm sure one could do some smart conversion optimizatio…

I question how much of the "user submitted porn" is actually user submitted. Flickr, YouTube, etc i buy that all the content is submitted by users. Porn sites, it seems far more likely that the content is mostly uploaded by paid staff. It's hard for me to believe that there are people who see a porn they like and think "wow, I should submit this to youporn". If you're going to build a porn site, the biggest part of t…

The major tube sites from the looks of things are primarily dominated by other sites trying to fight for traffic via branded videos, or by cutting a deal with the owner to have branded pages that not only showcase their uploaded content, but a few banners here and there to try and push half satisfied viewers to the core content hub.

I'd guess that the tube site is getting some sort of service fee for allowing the sites to have a "premium" service, as well as some sort of kick back depending on the conversion rate from leads generated by the content (why the premium videos are generally listed higher).

If you think that 1) the videos are legit and that guy just happened to stumble across those two girls in the woods, then you're also going to also believe that 2) most of the content is amateur. - It's a sad truth that the industry preys on the weak minded.

I'd say that a fair amount is self-uploaded (via content bought from providers, or produced specifically for the site), but a majority is uploaded from other content houses to try to promote themselves. Think Free to air TV... average crap shows, filled with 80% advertising.

Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#18

Post by revelation »

true_religion wrote: post #11
kysol wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been out of the loop for too long, but back in the day (when Tube sites were just starting up), it was getting harder and harder to make money. So many people were starting up, and Visa was cracking down hard on charge backs. The biggest issue back in the day was Content licencing, which with today's whole DMCA crap, I would expect it to be far worse on a user-generated content site. If you licensed images for a…

For the record, he's talking about user-generated content so even if users upload unlicenced materials he's covered by DMCA protections. He won't have to worry about licencing content, since he won't knowingly use copyrighted content beyond what freebies are offered to CPA partners. I think everything you're saying makes sense for a Paysite, but he's not a paysite---just an affiliate and traffic producer which is a b…

As megaupload shows, it doesn't even matter if you are protected from DMCA safe harbor. If a prosecutor thinks you are not, they will destroy your business without recourse.

Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#19

Post by true_religion »

notatoad wrote: post #12
GuiA wrote: post #2

I've always mused with the idea of creating a user-submitted-content based porn website. The base code can be whipped out in a few days, and getting traffic for that kind of thing seems to be super easy. The goal would then be to make minor money through smart advertising (most porn websites today are usability hell, with every single white space covered in ads; i'm sure one could do some smart conversion optimizatio…

I question how much of the "user submitted porn" is actually user submitted. Flickr, YouTube, etc i buy that all the content is submitted by users. Porn sites, it seems far more likely that the content is mostly uploaded by paid staff. It's hard for me to believe that there are people who see a porn they like and think "wow, I should submit this to youporn". If you're going to build a porn site, the biggest part of t…

> seems far more likely that the content is mostly uploaded by paid staff.

That's true, but the paid staff is on the end of the content producers in exchange for having their advertisement placed next to the videos.

Also, Manwin actually charges content producers a 'content rate' in order to use their tube-sites for traffic generation. In the beginning, most tubes had unauthorized full videos which would draw in a user base, but were succeptible to DMCA take down. Now with their premier place in the marktplace, Manwin seeds their tubes with either their own content or requires content partners to produce 1 full video per X weeks in order to remain a featured partner.

As for clips... those are freebies given out to affiliates, I have a hard time believing that everyone doesn't use bots to upload that to the Tube-sites.

Re: Programmer behind YouPorn empire arrested in Belgium

#20

Post by kysol »

true_religion wrote: post #11
kysol wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been out of the loop for too long, but back in the day (when Tube sites were just starting up), it was getting harder and harder to make money. So many people were starting up, and Visa was cracking down hard on charge backs. The biggest issue back in the day was Content licencing, which with today's whole DMCA crap, I would expect it to be far worse on a user-generated content site. If you licensed images for a…

For the record, he's talking about user-generated content so even if users upload unlicenced materials he's covered by DMCA protections. He won't have to worry about licencing content, since he won't knowingly use copyrighted content beyond what freebies are offered to CPA partners. I think everything you're saying makes sense for a Paysite, but he's not a paysite---just an affiliate and traffic producer which is a b…

True, I wasn't sure how DMCA would work with Tube sites since they were awfully heavy handed back in the day when tracking down unlicensed content. -- I've been out for too long, it's all behind me these days. It was fun, met some nice, really smart guys.
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