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Three sacred cows that must die so Europe can live

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Re: Three sacred cows that must die so Europe can live

#11

Post by graemep »

throw310822 wrote: post #7

I'm not a defender of mass immigration- in fact I find all arguments in favour of it (or just fatalistic about it) to be naive or well-intentioned non sequiturs. Yet, I don't see how it is contributing to the decline of Europe, which is entirely endogenous- a product of Europe's fragmented history and culture. The only real macro impact of mass immigration is, for the time being, the discontent and slide towards popu…

The author wants to blame immigrants.

I do not think it is fragmented culture either. There is no clear patter of bigger being better. I think it is complacency, bad government, and a decline in efficiency. I do agree it is endogenous.

Re: Three sacred cows that must die so Europe can live

#12

Post by effed3 »

just (bad) opinions, without even minimal evidences of of -real- facts.

The crisis of Europe is way more in the massive investment in speculative finance than in real in-house investments and development, in the past 30 years. results? No resources = no strategic tech, no defence, no cheap energy, low employments, no higher wages, no redistribution, no public sanity, austerity to keep orders in states finances = no resources for development, and so spiraling downward.

Blaming immigration, green-tech and fighting-succes (?!) is simply brainless vapor.

Re: Three sacred cows that must die so Europe can live

#14

Post by throw310822 »

graemep wrote: post #11
throw310822 wrote: post #7

I'm not a defender of mass immigration- in fact I find all arguments in favour of it (or just fatalistic about it) to be naive or well-intentioned non sequiturs. Yet, I don't see how it is contributing to the decline of Europe, which is entirely endogenous- a product of Europe's fragmented history and culture. The only real macro impact of mass immigration is, for the time being, the discontent and slide towards popu…

The author wants to blame immigrants. I do not think it is fragmented culture either. There is no clear patter of bigger being better. I think it is complacency, bad government, and a decline in efficiency. I do agree it is endogenous.

It's cultural- European culture puts much more emphasis on safety and security and collective good vs individual freedom and reward. Plus it has sclerotic bureaucracies, and old nation-states that refuse to relinquish their power in favour of a collective entity- which results in a lot of uncoordinated or even adversarial actions. The collective entity finally might be even impossible given the linguistics and cultural differences between the various countries and the reciprocal, well entrenched distrust. All not necessarily in this order.

One per theory of mine is that immigrants actually might help breaking up this course of things: as people with no built up wealth and much less to lose, they might be willing to work harder and risk more; and they might be more indifferent towards the national stereotypes that are still a source of mistrust between europeans.

Re: Three sacred cows that must die so Europe can live

#15

Post by graemep »

throw310822 wrote: post #14
graemep wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author wants to blame immigrants. I do not think it is fragmented culture either. There is no clear patter of bigger being better. I think it is complacency, bad government, and a decline in efficiency. I do agree it is endogenous.

It's cultural- European culture puts much more emphasis on safety and security and collective good vs individual freedom and reward. Plus it has sclerotic bureaucracies, and old nation-states that refuse to relinquish their power in favour of a collective entity- which results in a lot of uncoordinated or even adversarial actions. The collective entity finally might be even impossible given the linguistics and cultur…

That culture varies a lot between countries, but they share a direction of travel.

> a collective entity

IMO is likely to create more bureaucracy rather than less. I am convinced it is impossible without a common identity and culture.

> immigrants actually might help breaking up this course of things: as people with no built up wealth and much less to lose, they might be willing to work harder and risk more

Possibly, but only the first generation. Not even them in countries (the UK does this, I am sure other countries do too) that strongly favour immigrants with money or who are highly skilled.

On the other hand, I think one of the advantages the US has over Europe is its ability to attract high skilled immigrants.

Re: Three sacred cows that must die so Europe can live

#16

Post by abc42 »

romanhounds wrote: post #4
abc42 wrote: post #2

Throw into that same fire also every Russian psyop attempt at destabilizing the West. Such as every alt-right/nu-right political party that sprang up over the last 30 years in Europe, brexit, QAnon, climate change denialism, Trump and all of MAGA, anti-vax, etc etc etc. I suspect that DHH is not so willing to meet at the center. He might be a great software/business leader, but politically he's just another whiner wh…

[flagged]

It's standard playbook that they do not create these situations. That would be completely obvious and thus ineffective.

Instead, they pick existing or upcoming trends and make them worse.

Re: Three sacred cows that must die so Europe can live

#18

Post by f30e3dfed1c9 »

abc42 wrote: post #2

Throw into that same fire also every Russian psyop attempt at destabilizing the West. Such as every alt-right/nu-right political party that sprang up over the last 30 years in Europe, brexit, QAnon, climate change denialism, Trump and all of MAGA, anti-vax, etc etc etc. I suspect that DHH is not so willing to meet at the center. He might be a great software/business leader, but politically he's just another whiner wh…

> He might be a great software/business leader

There is little to no evidence of him as a great business leader. How many people does his company employ? I don't think it's as many as a hundred. This is the scale of, say, a single car dealership.

Re: Three sacred cows that must die so Europe can live

#20

Post by abc42 »

f30e3dfed1c9 wrote: post #18
abc42 wrote: post #2

Throw into that same fire also every Russian psyop attempt at destabilizing the West. Such as every alt-right/nu-right political party that sprang up over the last 30 years in Europe, brexit, QAnon, climate change denialism, Trump and all of MAGA, anti-vax, etc etc etc. I suspect that DHH is not so willing to meet at the center. He might be a great software/business leader, but politically he's just another whiner wh…

> He might be a great software/business leader There is little to no evidence of him as a great business leader. How many people does his company employ? I don't think it's as many as a hundred. This is the scale of, say, a single car dealership.

That's a bit insane criticism to lay on him. 37signals is a 27 year old company and Basecamp has been a profitable product for more than a decade.

Success is not measured by the number of people you employ.

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