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Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

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Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#11

Post by ghgdynb1 »

happytoexplain wrote: post #7
doublepg23 wrote: post #2

Unexpected to see this talked about on HN. I actually went through the Allegheny county “newcomer tax” just some months ago. It was a bit of a strange process to appeal (I lost; my house is very weird for the area). While I do see the benefit for not raising taxes so consistently for long-term owners (and could definitely see gentrification-esque effects) it does seem like a pretty obvious - if bitter - pill to swall…

Continued growth to what end...?

Ultimately to the end of allowing Pittsburgh and the surrounding area to be a place with agglomeration effects, growth, and opportunities enough to allow smart and ambitious young people to remain in the area as opposed to brain draining into the Acela corridor.

It’s sad when a city that could go either way chooses to rust and its most talented young people no longer have the option of staying in their home if they want dynamic careers.

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#12

Post by doublepg23 »

trollbridge wrote: post #4
doublepg23 wrote: post #2

Unexpected to see this talked about on HN. I actually went through the Allegheny county “newcomer tax” just some months ago. It was a bit of a strange process to appeal (I lost; my house is very weird for the area). While I do see the benefit for not raising taxes so consistently for long-term owners (and could definitely see gentrification-esque effects) it does seem like a pretty obvious - if bitter - pill to swall…

If the only way to have growth is to kick out the existing inhabitants, one wonders what the purpose of “growth” is.

How can you sustain a city if the existing inhabitants children would rather leave?

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#13

Post by whatever1 »

cco wrote: post #9
whatever1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes are the only thing that can redistribute wealth from landlords to the working people. Your company definitely bought / financed it, so it is clear evidence of your financial means at the purchase time. Businesses that own land don't pay federal taxes, they can just declare 0 profit every year while paying for range rovers for the owners.

> Property taxes are the only thing that can redistribute wealth from landlords to the working people. Eh? Working people always pay the property tax, landlords do not.

Landlords will just price rent at the maximum price the market can afford. Their costs are irrelevant.

Evidence: the free cash flow varies wildly per geography even in the same tax region.

Landlords will accept negative cash flow in expectation of property value increase.

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#14

Post by iamnothere »

xvedejas wrote: post #8
whatever1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes are the only thing that can redistribute wealth from landlords to the working people. Your company definitely bought / financed it, so it is clear evidence of your financial means at the purchase time. Businesses that own land don't pay federal taxes, they can just declare 0 profit every year while paying for range rovers for the owners.

Property taxes have a component that redistributes wealth from landlords to the working people, but it also has a component that penalizes making better use of the land. The former is usually called "land value tax" and the latter is the part of the tax that is proportional to the improved value of the land. The latter part incentivizes some uncertain amount more towards mcmansions and away from multi-unit buildings.

Property tax also encourages speculators to hold and trade underutilized parcels compared to land value tax. With property tax, the penalty for holding an empty parking lot in a dense urban center is much lower than under a land value tax system.

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#15

Post by jimbokun »

happytoexplain wrote: post #7
doublepg23 wrote: post #2

Unexpected to see this talked about on HN. I actually went through the Allegheny county “newcomer tax” just some months ago. It was a bit of a strange process to appeal (I lost; my house is very weird for the area). While I do see the benefit for not raising taxes so consistently for long-term owners (and could definitely see gentrification-esque effects) it does seem like a pretty obvious - if bitter - pill to swall…

Continued growth to what end...?

The city not dying.

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#16

Post by whatever1 »

iamnothere wrote: post #14
xvedejas wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes have a component that redistributes wealth from landlords to the working people, but it also has a component that penalizes making better use of the land. The former is usually called "land value tax" and the latter is the part of the tax that is proportional to the improved value of the land. The latter part incentivizes some uncertain amount more towards mcmansions and away from multi-unit buildings.

Property tax also encourages speculators to hold and trade underutilized parcels compared to land value tax. With property tax, the penalty for holding an empty parking lot in a dense urban center is much lower than under a land value tax system.

Oh this definitely needs extra tax in areas with limited supply. Unoccupied property ? 1% tax per month. Rent it or sell it.

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#17

Post by iamnothere »

whatever1 wrote: post #16
iamnothere wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property tax also encourages speculators to hold and trade underutilized parcels compared to land value tax. With property tax, the penalty for holding an empty parking lot in a dense urban center is much lower than under a land value tax system.

Oh this definitely needs extra tax in areas with limited supply. Unoccupied property ? 1% tax per month. Rent it or sell it.

That’s one approach, but then you get people playing with the system, adding a single apartment to the multimillion dollar lot, or the aforementioned parking lot (technically a business). The great thing about LVT is that it bypasses these shell games. The biggest weakness is that you have to fight off any attempt to seize control of the valuation process, and that is going to be difficult except in places with highly engaged and intelligent voters.

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#18

Post by afpx »

Pittsburgh is a mess. I grew up there and came back recently to visit after 20 years. I walked a street for a few miles, and it was homeless after homeless. Heartbreaking change to see. I spoke with some missionaries who were handing out provisions, and they said the next street up was even worse.

Reminds me of what happened to San Francisco after the tech boom. What a loss. These people who come to these cities for the economic zone are sick - they will literally let people die on the street. I wish Pittsburgh could tax the landowners into poverty.

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#19

Post by whatever1 »

iamnothere wrote: post #17
whatever1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh this definitely needs extra tax in areas with limited supply. Unoccupied property ? 1% tax per month. Rent it or sell it.

That’s one approach, but then you get people playing with the system, adding a single apartment to the multimillion dollar lot, or the aforementioned parking lot (technically a business). The great thing about LVT is that it bypasses these shell games. The biggest weakness is that you have to fight off any attempt to seize control of the valuation process, and that is going to be difficult except in places with highl…

That is fair. Would business zoning help in this scenario and business specific property taxes?

Re: Modernizing Property Tax Assessments in Allegheny County

#20

Post by doublepg23 »

afpx wrote: post #18

Pittsburgh is a mess. I grew up there and came back recently to visit after 20 years. I walked a street for a few miles, and it was homeless after homeless. Heartbreaking change to see. I spoke with some missionaries who were handing out provisions, and they said the next street up was even worse. Reminds me of what happened to San Francisco after the tech boom. What a loss. These people who come to these cities for…

Is this not the Rust-Belt writ large?

De-industrialization for decades on decades - of which Pittsburgh did an okay job of pivoting (many many other towns nearby faired far far worse) - pile on brain drain to the Coasts and a opioid epidemic to boot, I don’t see how this is an indictment of Yinzers.

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