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Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

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Re: Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

#11
They deserve it.

Moreover, fines this big for companies this big need to become more common. We need to stop thinking that mere millions or billions of dollars can do anything to trillion-dollar megacorporations.

It's like how the EU has been fighting to fine Google some billions of dollars recently. It's supposed to be such a large fine, supposedly one of the largest fines ever issued but it's still practically nothing. It's not even close to significant.

People's brains seem to break with figures this large, billions must feel so large somehow and such an overreach already, but it's really, really not, especially compared to something like Google, or Facebook.

There are so many more orders of magnitude before it starts to matter, it's not even funny, it's just sad.

For example: Google has finally just recently been ordered to pay a €4.1bn fine they've been appealing for eight years. Not only could they have probably originally paid the fine dozens of times over on the spot, but they were able to appeal it for EIGHT YEARS, making for many hundreds or even thousands of times over the fine could've been paid. That fine is literally nothing for them.

Re: Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

#12
post #6

> a figure the tech giant blasted as “outlandish.” Conforming to society's expectations can feel outlandish if you've never been subject to it before. This is why Reagan-era 90+% top marginal income tax and strong antitrust measures are important - it prevents companies getting to the point when it feels "outlandish" to them to be punished for trying to destroy the society that granted them their wealth.

First, for accuracy: the personal top marginal income tax rate during the Reagan-era was not 90%. When Reagan took office, it was 70%, which is where it had been since the 1960s. The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 dropped it to 50% and when he left office it was at 28%. Basically nobody actually paid the top marginal rate because there were so many exclusions, deductions and shelters. Many of the biggest went away…

> First, for accuracy: the personal top marginal income tax rate during the Reagan-era was not 90%. When Reagan took office, it was 70%, which is where it had been since the 1960s.

First, for accuracy: it was above 90% from WWII up until 1963.

> the wealth situation in the world today

"The (developed) world" is not doing nearly as badly as the US. If the US was more closely aligned with Europe in terms of inequality, it'd be in much better shape.

> let's first acknowledge that not every profit-making company engages in the type of despicable behavior Facebook has.

I in no way claimed otherwise. Perhaps read my very short comment again, more carefully this time.

Re: Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

#13
just another ruse to destroy competing smaller social media under the guise of "protecting the children" since these big corps can pay these fines, making legal barriers for competition more costly, while "Big Tech" will continue doing "objectionable" things like this

Re: Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

#14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, for accuracy: the personal top marginal income tax rate during the Reagan-era was not 90%. When Reagan took office, it was 70%, which is where it had been since the 1960s. The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 dropped it to 50% and when he left office it was at 28%. Basically nobody actually paid the top marginal rate because there were so many exclusions, deductions and shelters. Many of the biggest went away…

> First, for accuracy: the personal top marginal income tax rate during the Reagan-era was not 90%. When Reagan took office, it was 70%, which is where it had been since the 1960s. First, for accuracy: it was above 90% from WWII up until 1963. > the wealth situation in the world today "The (developed) world" is not doing nearly as badly as the US. If the US was more closely aligned with Europe in terms of inequality,…

> First, for accuracy: it was above 90% from WWII up until 1963.

Reagan took office in 1981. Is it that difficult to acknowledge that you posted something that was inaccurate, and move forward from it?

Also, as noted, basically nobody ever actually paid these rates.

> "The (developed) world" is not doing nearly as badly as the US. If the US was more closely aligned with Europe in terms of inequality, it'd be in much better shape.

Wealth inequality is higher in the US than it is in Europe, and this certainly has some nasty effects. But there's still significant wealth inequality in Europe and Europe has its own major economic problems, including wage stagnation, higher inflation (largely due to overdependence on imported energy), slower GDP and productivity growth, lower R&D spending, high structural unemployment (in some countries), greater reliance on bank lending due to weaker markets for equity financing, an overall environment that makes it harder for high-growth businesses to emerge, etc.

If you could somehow reduce wealth inequality in the US while avoiding the ills that plague Europe, then yes, the US would be "in much better shape."

We should also note that Europe isn't a country. In Sweden, the top 10% hold almost 75% of the wealth. In Germany, it's around 63%. Belgium has the lowest figure at around 43%. In the US, the top 10% holds 68% of the wealth, but what distinguishes it from countries like Sweden and Germany is the stunning growth in what the top 1% holds.

> I in no way claimed otherwise. Perhaps read my very short comment again, more carefully this time.

Your comment directly implied that taxation should be used to prevent companies from "getting to the point when it feels 'outlandish' to them to be punished for trying to destroy the society that granted them their wealth."

This isn't the purpose of taxation and if you tried to use it as such, you'd fail spectacularly.

Re: Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

#15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, for accuracy: the personal top marginal income tax rate during the Reagan-era was not 90%. When Reagan took office, it was 70%, which is where it had been since the 1960s. First, for accuracy: it was above 90% from WWII up until 1963. > the wealth situation in the world today "The (developed) world" is not doing nearly as badly as the US. If the US was more closely aligned with Europe in terms of inequality,…

> First, for accuracy: it was above 90% from WWII up until 1963. Reagan took office in 1981. Is it that difficult to acknowledge that you posted something that was inaccurate, and move forward from it? Also, as noted, basically nobody ever actually paid these rates. > "The (developed) world" is not doing nearly as badly as the US. If the US was more closely aligned with Europe in terms of inequality, it'd be in much…

> Is it that difficult to acknowledge that you posted something that was inaccurate, and move forward from it?

What I take serious issue with is the deceptive and uncharitable nature of your "correction", which didn't mention that the number I quoted was real and in effect up until 1963.

The reason you're behaving like that is that in your desperate desire to defend the infrastructure that supports oligarchs, you need to cling to minor nitpicks because you don't have any serious points to make.

> Your comment directly implied that taxation should be used to prevent companies from "getting to the point when it feels 'outlandish' to them to be punished for trying to destroy the society that granted them their wealth."

Quoting my exact comment is not describing an implication. Perhaps you'd like to take another stab at incorrectly describing whatever you're imagining that I'm implying.

Re: Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

#16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, for accuracy: it was above 90% from WWII up until 1963. Reagan took office in 1981. Is it that difficult to acknowledge that you posted something that was inaccurate, and move forward from it? Also, as noted, basically nobody ever actually paid these rates. > "The (developed) world" is not doing nearly as badly as the US. If the US was more closely aligned with Europe in terms of inequality, it'd be in much…

> Is it that difficult to acknowledge that you posted something that was inaccurate, and move forward from it? What I take serious issue with is the deceptive and uncharitable nature of your "correction", which didn't mention that the number I quoted was real and in effect up until 1963. The reason you're behaving like that is that in your desperate desire to defend the infrastructure that supports oligarchs, you nee…

> What I take serious issue with is the deceptive and uncharitable nature of your "correction", which didn't mention that the number I quoted was real and in effect up until 1963.

"Reagan-era" is the 1980s. You were off by almost two decades. That warranted a correction.

And as I noted, the number of people who this rate actually applied to was unbelievably small. To put it in precise terms: in 1963, only 501 returns out of approximately 50 million filers actually paid this rate. According to the Tax Foundation, the actual average effective tax rate for the top 1% of earners in 1962 was only ~16%. That's because, as I noted, there were tons of exclusions, deductions and shelters permitted, the biggest of which were removed as the tax rates were lowered.

Taking the position that tort law and consumer protection regulation, not punitive tax rates that will never actually be paid, is the way to deal with corporations behaving badly is common sense, not pro-oligarch.

Re: Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

#17

They deserve it. Moreover, fines this big for companies this big need to become more common. We need to stop thinking that mere millions or billions of dollars can do anything to trillion-dollar megacorporations. It's like how the EU has been fighting to fine Google some billions of dollars recently. It's supposed to be such a large fine, supposedly one of the largest fines ever issued but it's still practically noth…

I've always marveled at fines that are well below the culprit's proceeds. If you can drag out and minimize a fine, is it really a punishment or just a tax/cost of doing business?

Imagine that I am a bank robber. I rob the bank for $10 million The court forces me to pay a $3 million fine. I am now $7 million richer and justice is restored - how wonderful!

Re: Meta says it's facing $1.4T in penalties in teen mental health case

#19
post #6

> a figure the tech giant blasted as “outlandish.” Conforming to society's expectations can feel outlandish if you've never been subject to it before. This is why Reagan-era 90+% top marginal income tax and strong antitrust measures are important - it prevents companies getting to the point when it feels "outlandish" to them to be punished for trying to destroy the society that granted them their wealth.

First, for accuracy: the personal top marginal income tax rate during the Reagan-era was not 90%. When Reagan took office, it was 70%, which is where it had been since the 1960s. The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 dropped it to 50% and when he left office it was at 28%. Basically nobody actually paid the top marginal rate because there were so many exclusions, deductions and shelters. Many of the biggest went away…

I just want to chime in. “Basically nobody” is not nobody. Usually when people speak about these tax rates they are looking at too 1% tax receipts but the ultra wealthy .01% certainly got a payday with Reagan subsequent tax cuts have benefited them tremendously. https://economicsinsider.com/us-wealth-inequality-1965-2025/ has a nice graph. The paydays for the extremely wealthy do not tend to pop up on reports because we do not report down to that level - most top out at too 1% or .1%. But those with the most money and ability to influence our lives with it having been having a //great// few decades.
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