This would never have happened if Steve Jobs was alive.
Steve Jobs was an exceptional marketing guy, but even manipulating stock prices would have been out of his reach. I seriously doubt that Steve being alive or dead would have changed much.
Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
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Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#12Taxes on the wealthy and their capital gains are going up! Between now and the end of the year I believe you will see a LOT of selling from people and institutions holding large positions. Regardless of whether or not we go over the 'Cliff', capital gains tax rates will be going up and lots of selling will occur that drives down stock prices.
Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#13This would never have happened if Steve Jobs was alive.
Steve Jobs was an exceptional marketing guy, but even manipulating stock prices would have been out of his reach. I seriously doubt that Steve being alive or dead would have changed much.
I'm pretty sure assharif was being funny and/or a deliberate troll. But I'm not completely sure.
Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#14Apple's share price has not had any correlation to its fundamentals for the last few years. If you were to compare its P/E ratio to that of other tech companies out there (Amazon's is 3628) it would technically be undervalued even at its current price. That said, most of the volatility comes from all the prop trading firms trying to turn a profit. AAPL is considered a bullish stock amongst fund managers and is often…
But it's also not reasonable to compare Apple's P/E with Amazon's. There's more to valuation that industry; Apple and Amazon are both "tech companies", but they have wildly differing business models. In particular, Amazon is aggressively buying market share and the market is financing that. The market says Amazon could radically more lucrative in the future, in a way Apple won't (it's already absurdly profitable).
Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#15This would never have happened if Steve Jobs was alive.
You're right! The stock never crested above 400 while Jobs was alive, so the fact that it's fallen to 540 (and mostly recovered in after-hour sales) WOULD never have happened while he was alive.
Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#16Apple's share price has not had any correlation to its fundamentals for the last few years. If you were to compare its P/E ratio to that of other tech companies out there (Amazon's is 3628) it would technically be undervalued even at its current price. That said, most of the volatility comes from all the prop trading firms trying to turn a profit. AAPL is considered a bullish stock amongst fund managers and is often…
The market is still irrational. Today, it's downward. I'm still solvent. (thankfully).
Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#17The key risk for Apple is what its future earnings will be. Given that its current earnings dwarf anyone else, one must believe they will be able to be maintained which is equivalent to a bet that the iPhone will continue to be sold in high quantities with high margins.
In the last year Apple generated $55B in pre-tax earnings. They had $80B in revenue from the iPhone at a margin of >60% or $48B. They sell the iPhone for an average of $642 while the Nexus 4 retails at $299. If the iPhone dropped to a wholesale price of $399 ($100 pricing advantage), it would reduce pre-tax earnings by $30B (55%). If iPhone sales double that would offset about 60% of that decline.
Another way to ask this question is what total mobile phone profits will be in mature market. If there are 7B phones replaced every 4 years, that implies 1.75B phones sold. Cost will likely fall so revenue could be 437.5B. If Apple can capture 30% of that with margins more similar to the Mac (~30%), this suggests even if Apple continues to make better products and can maintain significant market share, they'll earn 20% less from the iPhone than they do today.
Of course Apple has an extraordinarily successful iPad business but its margins are much lower than the iPhone and as an unsubsidized device will likely face greater pressure.
The questions to ask is evaluating Apple are: When will their earnings peak and by how much do will they fall before they reach an equilibrium. While this may be anathema to some and I admire what Apple has achieved, large economic profits cannot exist in the long run in a competitive market. Why is a longer discussion but I challenge the reader to pose a counterexample.
Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#18Apple's share price has not had any correlation to its fundamentals for the last few years. If you were to compare its P/E ratio to that of other tech companies out there (Amazon's is 3628) it would technically be undervalued even at its current price. That said, most of the volatility comes from all the prop trading firms trying to turn a profit. AAPL is considered a bullish stock amongst fund managers and is often…
But it's also not reasonable to compare Apple's P/E with Amazon's. There's more to valuation that industry; Apple and Amazon are both "tech companies", but they have wildly differing business models. In particular, Amazon is aggressively buying market share and the market is financing that. The market says Amazon could radically more lucrative in the future, in a way Apple won't (it's already absurdly profitable).
And they are right. Amazon is the next Walmart, but on a global scale.
Apple is just a high-end tablet maker, and they are getting hit very heavily by their competition. You can't ride forever on the fanboy wave and the brand wave. Fanboys will realize the competition is better, cooler, cheaper, and Apple brand is already toxic, it's not cool anymore.
Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it's also not reasonable to compare Apple's P/E with Amazon's. There's more to valuation that industry; Apple and Amazon are both "tech companies", but they have wildly differing business models. In particular, Amazon is aggressively buying market share and the market is financing that. The market says Amazon could radically more lucrative in the future, in a way Apple won't (it's already absurdly profitable).
And they are right. Amazon is the next Walmart, but on a global scale. Apple is just a high-end tablet maker, and they are getting hit very heavily by their competition. You can't ride forever on the fanboy wave and the brand wave. Fanboys will realize the competition is better, cooler, cheaper, and Apple brand is already toxic, it's not cool anymore.
Are you serious? Apple defines the market.
Re: Apple loses $34.9 billion in market cap
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
And they are right. Amazon is the next Walmart, but on a global scale. Apple is just a high-end tablet maker, and they are getting hit very heavily by their competition. You can't ride forever on the fanboy wave and the brand wave. Fanboys will realize the competition is better, cooler, cheaper, and Apple brand is already toxic, it's not cool anymore.
Are you serious? Apple defines the market.
YES DEFINITELY LETS HAVE THIS "DEBATE"
I just wanted to make a point about comparing P/E ratios. You know, from my Macbook.