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President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

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Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#11

Post by sph »

Y-bar wrote: post #5
wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

I can. Let’s say for example that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was used to prosecute you for downloading JSTOR documents which you had already access to. And you are facing the cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, personal asset forfeiture. Now, would a pardon from the highest executive office be a miscarriage when the prosecution should never have happened in the first place? I…

You can as easily use pardons to tip the scales to a more corrupt society.

If you assume, hypothetically, that the justice system is operating as it should, a pardon means giving one person the right to ignore the laws of the country for a select few acquaintances.

If one has to tolerate this blatant avenue for favoritism, I’d rather see the Supreme Court or judges themselves invested with this power, rather than the president.

I guess I am biased by believing in the separation of the executive and judiciary powers.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#12

Post by pinkmuffinere »

OutOfHere wrote: post #7
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm, presumably, but unless they're caught rolling coal[1] again, they can't be re-arrested as they've been pardoned for the previous cases. It's a tacky crime, hardly the most serious, but that makes a presidential pardon seem especially absurd here. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

It is a serious crime. Diesel fumes are very damaging to the lungs and heart. Imagine a pregnant woman being exposed to them. There is no logical way to make light of it. From your link: > the practice can increase nitrogen oxide emissions as much as 310 times, non-methane hydrocarbons 1,400 times, and carbon monoxide 120 times

[flagged]

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#13

Post by Y-bar »

thesumofall wrote: post #10
Y-bar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can. Let’s say for example that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act was used to prosecute you for downloading JSTOR documents which you had already access to. And you are facing the cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, personal asset forfeiture. Now, would a pardon from the highest executive office be a miscarriage when the prosecution should never have happened in the first place? I…

But isn’t that what the parent says? Fix the underlying laws instead of relying on a single person to randomly overrule the law

I don’t think parent commenter says so, he only claims one thing for himself, that pardon power is always a miscarriage of justice. Then he asks another thing of us, which is explicitly excluding himself, indicating that he thinks all laws and all applications of law and justice is fair.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#14

Post by anonymousiam »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #3
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #2

All 9 should be immediately arrested again in 2029, I’m sure they’re planning to go back to their criminal ways. I’ll save this article to remind the next AG about it.

Sarcasm, presumably, but unless they're caught rolling coal[1] again, they can't be re-arrested as they've been pardoned for the previous cases. It's a tacky crime, hardly the most serious, but that makes a presidential pardon seem especially absurd here. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

[flagged]

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#15

Post by qalmakka »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #3
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #2

All 9 should be immediately arrested again in 2029, I’m sure they’re planning to go back to their criminal ways. I’ll save this article to remind the next AG about it.

Sarcasm, presumably, but unless they're caught rolling coal[1] again, they can't be re-arrested as they've been pardoned for the previous cases. It's a tacky crime, hardly the most serious, but that makes a presidential pardon seem especially absurd here. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

It is a serious crime. Diesel exhaust is s IARC type 1 carcinogen. Somehow people go nuts when companies pollute water but not when they pollute the air they breathe

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#16

Post by larrymcp »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #4

I can't see any way in which a "Pardon Power" can ever result in anything except miscarriage of justice. If you think there needs to be an escape hatch to fix injustices then you have a bigger problem.

I agree with the example given in the sibling comment, and this is why the framers believed there needed to be a final “safety valve” outside the courts. Legal systems are imperfect, and sometimes a pardon is the only practical way to remedy an egregious error.

Another example where pardons might be useful is when laws are changed after sentencing. If the new law does not provide for retroactive adjustments, a president or governor can grant clemency in order to correct disparities in sentencing outcomes.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#17

Post by datadrivenangel »

"Jonathan Achtemeier pleaded guilty in November 2024, admitting that between 2019 and 2022, he tampered with the monitoring devices on hundreds of vehicles nationwide so those trucks would not detect that their owners removed pollution control hardware systems. Achtemeier advertised his services on the internet and was able to tamper with the monitoring devices in diesel trucks remotely. Between 2019 and 2021 Achtemeier’s company grossed $4.3 million. "

Fixing his own vehicle... for sure...

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#18

Post by bob1029 »

The biggest problem with diesel engines is that they tend to last nearly forever by virtue of their design (tolerating high compression ratios).

I see a lot of ancient big trucks on the road today that are completely legal in Texas but would probably get you sent straight to jail in Europe. The owners of these vehicles are oftentimes also diesel mechanics to some degree and can make their machine run much longer than they can.

The problem with all of this is that there is this entire niche of the market that you simply cannot penetrate with policy. I think some of these old trucks should be taken off the road, but I also sympathize with the owner/operators of these vehicles. I don't think many people drive a big dump truck around for fun (even in Texas). That's mostly a phenomenon on the consumer side. Rolling coal out of your Ram 3500 isn't something that really bothers me. The optics are horrible, but the actual impact is not. The thing that concerns me is the fleet of old Kenworth trucks from 1988 that the local construction company uses all day every day. Straight pipes and a constant rumble the USGS could monitor tend to drown out the broader concerns regarding emissions, but those also pop into your mind if you happen to be riding behind one.

I think a lot of the defeat device stuff is blown out of proportion for political reasons. Something approximating this has been going on since the 70s. Anything pertaining to consumer vehicles makes me roll my eyes. The studies they ran around VW are absolutely hyperbolic (hundreds of billions in damages, 100k+ dead eventually). Compare the marginal impact of slightly cheating emissions standards in a family sedan with one supermax cargo ship or a data center parking lot full of gas turbines and you'll probably find you are wasting your energy on the car thing. The deception is what makes most people angry. Not the actual impact.

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#19

Post by DangitBobby »

anonymousiam wrote: post #14
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcasm, presumably, but unless they're caught rolling coal[1] again, they can't be re-arrested as they've been pardoned for the previous cases. It's a tacky crime, hardly the most serious, but that makes a presidential pardon seem especially absurd here. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

[flagged]

What was absurd about the arrest? Were clown costumes involved somehow?

Re: President pardons 9 for Clean Air violations for 'fixing their car'

#20

Post by DangitBobby »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #12
OutOfHere wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a serious crime. Diesel fumes are very damaging to the lungs and heart. Imagine a pregnant woman being exposed to them. There is no logical way to make light of it. From your link: > the practice can increase nitrogen oxide emissions as much as 310 times, non-methane hydrocarbons 1,400 times, and carbon monoxide 120 times

[flagged]

They weren't arrested for rolling coal.
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