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On Heroku and 2012

kennethreitz.org

11–20 of 51 posts

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#11
post #9

I don't think unlimited vacation is a good thing because it really isn't unlimited and just keeps the employee guessing as to what is appropriate.

I absolutely agree. My last and current employer both offer unlimited vacation. For whatever psychological reason, I find myself taking less vacation than I did when I was _earning_ it at my McJob for the rate of 6.33 hours every month.

If you are such an employer, please consider setting a realistic expectation of what is an appropriate amount of time-off. If there really is no limit, then please consider more intensive training with regard to your company's culture .

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#12
post #9

I don't think unlimited vacation is a good thing because it really isn't unlimited and just keeps the employee guessing as to what is appropriate.

I absolutely agree. My last and current employer both offer unlimited vacation. For whatever psychological reason, I find myself taking less vacation than I did when I was _earning_ it at my McJob for the rate of 6.33 hours every month. If you are such an employer, please consider setting a realistic expectation of what is an appropriate amount of time-off. If there really is no limit, then please consider more inten…

We had a similar debate at dotCloud when the team discussed the appropriate amount of vacation. Unlimited was very tempting, but in the end we decided against it because 1) it's ambiguous and offers little guarantees, 2) it makes a lot of people suspicious ("Like AT&T unlimited?") and 3) it doesn't force people to take vacation.

Number 3 was the worst. Passionate people will burn themselves out if you don't setup some sort of "vacation monitoring". We liked the idea of making that explicit: lots of vacation, and rules that force you to use them regularly.

In the end we went for 2+1 weeks on the first year, and 3+2 weeks after that.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#13
post #9

I don't think unlimited vacation is a good thing because it really isn't unlimited and just keeps the employee guessing as to what is appropriate.

I work at Heroku and have never had pushback on taking vacation. Our CTO just took a month sabbatical. Sometimes I work on weekends and take some weekdays off. Whenever i'm in the (coding) flow I just do what feels right and Heroku let's me do that.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree. My last and current employer both offer unlimited vacation. For whatever psychological reason, I find myself taking less vacation than I did when I was _earning_ it at my McJob for the rate of 6.33 hours every month. If you are such an employer, please consider setting a realistic expectation of what is an appropriate amount of time-off. If there really is no limit, then please consider more inten…

We had a similar debate at dotCloud when the team discussed the appropriate amount of vacation. Unlimited was very tempting, but in the end we decided against it because 1) it's ambiguous and offers little guarantees, 2) it makes a lot of people suspicious ("Like AT&T unlimited?") and 3) it doesn't force people to take vacation. Number 3 was the worst. Passionate people will burn themselves out if you don't setup som…

Does 3+2 mean "3 required, optionally take 2 additional"?

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#15
post #9

I don't think unlimited vacation is a good thing because it really isn't unlimited and just keeps the employee guessing as to what is appropriate.

I absolutely agree. My last and current employer both offer unlimited vacation. For whatever psychological reason, I find myself taking less vacation than I did when I was _earning_ it at my McJob for the rate of 6.33 hours every month. If you are such an employer, please consider setting a realistic expectation of what is an appropriate amount of time-off. If there really is no limit, then please consider more inten…

I've been at places where a switch to "unlimited" would basically mean : You no longer have a number you can point to and say "I'm owed this many days of vacation time."

Fortunately, at my current company, when we switched to "unlimited" there was an added "and you're expected to take a minimum of 3 weeks per year". So, while the upper bound is still completely nebulous, by setting a reasonable minimum, it's clear they're not just trying to screw anyone over.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#16
post #9

I don't think unlimited vacation is a good thing because it really isn't unlimited and just keeps the employee guessing as to what is appropriate.

I absolutely agree. My last and current employer both offer unlimited vacation. For whatever psychological reason, I find myself taking less vacation than I did when I was _earning_ it at my McJob for the rate of 6.33 hours every month. If you are such an employer, please consider setting a realistic expectation of what is an appropriate amount of time-off. If there really is no limit, then please consider more inten…

I think it really depends on the culture of the company.

At Heroku, we are actively encouraged to take vacation. There has actually been talk of building something to track employee vacation time, to ensure that everyone is taking enough :)

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#17
> Don't spend a single moment in life doing something you don't want to do.

This advice or its cousins are found in many places around here and, well, I have a bad feeling about it. Is it not the epitome of egoism?

Is it possible to share a house with friends, or a spouse, or your kids, without ever "doing something you don't want to do"?

And in professional life, if you are a janitor, do you "want" to clean this toilets again? If you are a coder, you will do your share of boring work because you are in a team, right? And if you are a Big Boss, do you really want to fire this poor guy who is no fit here, will be no fit in no company you can think of, and has had already his content of shit on the head?

Even a painter, or a writer, or a comics guy like Mr Oatmeal have to do sometimes some things they do not "want" to do, professionally

The only people who really can avoid doing anything they do not want to do for a long period of time are the movie superstars and kids of some people of power. I do not think they represent a suitable ideal of life, and I do not think they are more happy than more normal poeple, quite the opposite in fact.

Then there are a few short-lived exceptions, a little slice of a life that is mostly free from hassles of any sort. I experienced this state during a few months myself: I got fired from a boring job, so I had the nice French wellfare and got 70% income for nothing. I also broke with my gf. At that time nobody counted in my life, I could and I did take risks, like getting involved in knife fight. I remember the only thing I did that I did not want to do was to take the train and join my parents to meet my grand-parents. for some important occasion. I actually had to wake up early and shave... But that's not real life, that's a short and egoistic period of my life. It has been somewhat useful in build my experience, but I'd not say I was happy. And most important is I would not make a general advice out of it. Only very few people in the world are lucky enough to find themselves with no professional or familial bounds and enough money to live free-wheeling for some month.

Or maybe the split is on another line: If young Americans can claim to never do what they do not want to do, maybe it is because they use autosuggestion, also known as The Coué method* , to make themselves "want" to do what they really just "have" to do. Using autosuggestion, I could proactively "want" to clean my toddler's diapers, or smile candidly and listen to this friend's spouse, while at the same time, deep in my heart, knowing she is really the boringest person in the world and I'd rather lick the streets than listen to her blabla (but I really like this friend, would not like to lose him...)

So yes, with autosuggestion, it is possible to force oneself to love to do what we hate to do, and it is most likely what many people do. But then, you'd have to balance carefully, because it is cheating, it is lying to oneself, and pushed too far it can become a poison, I guess.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mile_Cou%C3%A9#The_Cou.C3...

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#18
post #9

I don't think unlimited vacation is a good thing because it really isn't unlimited and just keeps the employee guessing as to what is appropriate.

That's not how it really works out at Heroku. Our managers and vibe team really push us all to take at least a few weeks (3-4) off per year at a minimum. That's important because we all love our work so much that we work hard the rest of the time.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#19
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a similar debate at dotCloud when the team discussed the appropriate amount of vacation. Unlimited was very tempting, but in the end we decided against it because 1) it's ambiguous and offers little guarantees, 2) it makes a lot of people suspicious ("Like AT&T unlimited?") and 3) it doesn't force people to take vacation. Number 3 was the worst. Passionate people will burn themselves out if you don't setup som…

Does 3+2 mean "3 required, optionally take 2 additional"?

Sorry, forgot to explain. 3+2 means "3 weeks accrued over the year and usable anytime, 2 weeks of company-wide break (specifically the weeks of thanksgiving and christmas)". The decision to do a company-wide break probably deserves a thread of its own. The short version is that it works great.

Re: On Heroku and 2012

#20
post #17

> Don't spend a single moment in life doing something you don't want to do. This advice or its cousins are found in many places around here and, well, I have a bad feeling about it. Is it not the epitome of egoism? Is it possible to share a house with friends, or a spouse, or your kids, without ever "doing something you don't want to do"? And in professional life, if you are a janitor, do you "want" to clean this toi…

This advice comes up very often when people write about re-evaluating their lives. (Also, this retort comes up very often when people read what those people wrote. I don't disagree with your logic, per se...)

I think you're right, but the author probably did not mean the advice as literally as you're reading it. You're interpreting the advice as a call for egoism [0]; selfishness to the point of being unwise. I think that when people write this, they're actually writing a call for hedonism[1].

Hedonism is different from egoism. Hedonism, the way I see it, is realizing that our existence is ultimately meaningless, and that we should optimize for our own happiness (and well-being) rather than any other metric; all metrics are meaningless, so we might as well stick to what makes us happy. In actionable terms, embracing hedonism means realizing that you should aim towards doing things that make you happy, and that this aim should be your guiding force (at every "single moment in life"). This doesn't mean that you should be happy every single moment; it means you should be optimizing for happiness every single moment. (To use your examples: a spouse knows that compromising will make them happier overall; a janitor knows that although his/her life aren't perfect, doing this is what will lead to his/her life improving (hopefully) or at least keeping them happier.)

Anyway, that's the way I understand this type of advice, and I appreciate the occasional reminders. (Also, I don't actually know much about philosophy, so I might be misusing terminology here; if so, please correct me!)

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_egoism (maybe?)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism

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