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America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

euronews.com

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Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#11

Post by KetoManx64 »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
peterspath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step zero: make energy as cheap as possible... no taxes on it

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

So an anarcho-capitalist society?

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#12

Post by alephnerd »

stockerta wrote: post #8

Nah, we will be fine. AI isn't sustainable, financially or otherwise. It will collapse and take a big chunk of the US economy with it.

Anthropic and OpenAI have seen consistent revenue growth, as have their Chinese peers like Alibaba and DeepSeek.

While some aspects of AI are overstated, it has had a very real and tangible impact at least in the US and China in a number of white collar roles.

Additonally, the fact that China is allocating $295B [0] for an AI buildout as is the US [1] and are using it to also help their domestic GreenTech and DeepTech ecosystems means the AI boom is having a downstream impact in multiple sectors.

EU states already missed out on the Dotcom, Social Media, Cloud, IoT, EV, and GreenTech booms at the expense of the US and China. If your sentiment is the norm within Europe, then both the US and China are correct to view the EU states as junior partners. States that control the technological frontier also control their destiny.

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-prepares-295-billi...

[1] - https://www.blackrock.com/us/individual/insights/energy-and-...

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#14

Post by alephnerd »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
peterspath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step zero: make energy as cheap as possible... no taxes on it

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

> Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China...

China has embargoed rare earth exports to the EU [0] as well as enforcing sanctions against the EU's domestic drone and UAV industry [1]. China is also training Russian soldiers on drone tactics to be used in Ukraine [2][3] as well as continuing to back Russia's position on Ukraine [4].

If Europe wishes to be "friends" with China, it means giving Russia primacy within Europe by giving up Ukraine, as well as completely giving up on European domestic industry.

This is obviously unacceptable for most eastern EU member states.

[0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/eu-firms-brace-more-shut...

[1] - https://www.scmp.com/economy/global-economy/article/3351292/...

[2] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russians-...

[3] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-ap...

[4] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/putin-says-russia-china-...

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#15

Post by dzhiurgis »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
peterspath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step zero: make energy as cheap as possible... no taxes on it

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

> Best deal for the consumer is king

Except best deal for consumer is subsidized (aka dumping) by CCP until local competition is destroyed. Next year solar and batteries are going to have price hikes because China finally stopped export subsidies.

But then perhaps if you believe Peter Thiels "Competition is for suckers" thesis then enabling monopoly focus on cost rather than competition is best for everyone.

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#16

Post by dv_dt »

artisinal wrote: post #10
seomint wrote: post #6

Step one: air conditioning. Step two: AI superpower.

Step one will result in the collapse of the pension system. We need to first make the pension system more robust before proceeding to roll out air conditioning across the continent.

I have noticed that austerity first economics is correlated with poor economic performance. There is no avoiding change and the question is if nations lean into the change or wall themselves into isolation and stagnation

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#17

Post by dv_dt »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #15
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically Europe needs to become best friends with China and buy all the solar panels and all the electronics they are willing to spare. But the ineffective incumbent European industries throw rocks into those gears. Even though EU consumers are delighted with what China has to offer. I think political landscape could use consumer focused political parties. Screw the business, screw the rent-seekers, rights-holders a…

> Best deal for the consumer is king Except best deal for consumer is subsidized (aka dumping) by CCP until local competition is destroyed. Next year solar and batteries are going to have price hikes because China finally stopped export subsidies. But then perhaps if you believe Peter Thiels "Competition is for suckers" thesis then enabling monopoly focus on cost rather than competition is best for everyone.

Dumping is the word used for some other nations effective industrial development policy

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#18

Post by schmuhblaster »

As a European I have long given up on any meaningful change w.r.t AI. Imho the average European is much more risk averse than the average American or Chinese. That and a plethora of other factors that have been discussed over and over again, make it unlikely that we'll see things change within the next ten years or so. Only massive and immediate threats (e.g. he crisis in Ukraine) will make people and governments reconsider their fundamental beliefs (and even then the pace of change will be slow).

Re: America can switch off AI. Europe must switch gears before it's too late

#20

Post by nitwit005 »

> Finally, and in parallel to this, the Commission should build a new relationship with the US. It is a hard pill to swallow: whether we like it or not, in the medium term, Europe will depend on American compute and chip infrastructure to grow its own providers at the application layer.

A very long sounding "medium term".

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