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Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

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Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#11

Post by anamax »

throwa356262 wrote: post #3

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.

> Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places.

Europe averages 53k to 175k heat-related deaths per year. The difference depends on whether you listen to the EC or the UN. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766

The comparable number for the US is 4-11k, albeit with about 20% fewer people.

Note that the US is further south than Europe and generally has higher temperatures.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#12

Post by jurgenburgen »

rescbr wrote: post #4

Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming. And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.

> Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming.

I’ve been feeling confused lately about the news that the far-right parties in UK & France want more AC and the left-wing complain it’s not solving the root problems.

Are people just not aware that heat pumps are a great solution for both heating and cooling, saving energy on heating during winter?

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#15

Post by throwa356262 »

anamax wrote: post #11
throwa356262 wrote: post #3

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.

> Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Europe averages 53k to 175k heat-related deaths per year. The difference depends on whether you listen to the EC or the UN. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766 The comparable number for the US is 4-11k, albeit with about 20% fewer people. Note that the US is further south than Europe and generally has higher temperatures.

#1 recommendation from the same link:

   Keeping out of the heat: Avoid going out and undertaking strenuous activities when the sun’s at its hottest. Stay in the shade and do not leave children or animals in parked vehicles. If necessary and possible, spend two to three hours in a cool place, such as a supermarket or cinema
Sounds like the issue is not hot homes but people simply not knowing how dangerous being outside under the sun under such temperatures can be

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#16

Post by m4rtink »

throwa356262 wrote: post #3

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.

Also many old houses & modern insulated buildings have a significant heat inertia - so if the heat wave is not too long & you do sane heat management (open windows during the night to cool down the flat/house, keep windows closed during the day) then you will hardly notice the heat in an European home.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#17

Post by subpixel »

I can relate to a certain type of reluctance, in that I live in a part of the US that has never needed air conditioning. I don't look forward to the hassle and expense of installing a heat pump. I don't look forward to the cost of running one. And I won't like resigning to the fact that the summers I've experienced my whole life, as did my ancestors, are over forever.

Of course when it's regularly in the upper 80sF / 30C I will give in. I just empathize.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#19

Post by m2f2 »

sph wrote: post #14
JohnBrookz wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Europe is not a country. Given how many times we must have this conversation, I wonder if you guys are even taught geography in school?

Not yet, at least, but close to (thanks, POTUS).

Back to AC... I have to fork out 4000€ to replace an aging AC in a small flat 60sqm (650 sq feet).

Just looking out of my window right now I can see 600 similar places, so that's 2.4mil EUR for a couple of (city) blocks.

As AC is to be added as it won't replace the winter central heating system we got in most condos -- well that's a lot of money.

Re: Europe's resistance to AC is driving it insane

#20

Post by m4rtink »

bob1029 wrote: post #2

I am curious about the power grid situation in Europe. Assume the rate of AC usage was as high as the US (or god forbid Japan), how far behind is the grid infrastructure from where it needs to be? ERCOT (Texas) has daily swings of up to 50 gigawatts of power in the summer. I am pretty sure it is the most volatile US grid in terms of the demand side. A lot of the transmission infrastructure is purpose built for this e…

There are massive distributed solar deployments (eg. people putting cheap solar panels on their roofs, often backed by batteries) happening right now, those should help offset AC demands quite nicely.
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