The room the economy can't see • Hacker News Board

Re: The room the economy can't see

#11

Post by alephnerd » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:05 PM UTC

How much of this is just due to changing tastes? For example, Minecraft, Roblox, or an Xbox live subscription are the new lobbies for younger generations.

Heck, the article mentions Internet cafes but those died out once computer and smartphone penetration reached high double digits.

There are fewer of these third spaces because there is less demand for them than before due to changing preferences, as could be seen with the decline of church members as well as pubs or innovations making them irrelevant like Internet cafes.

Instead of trying to push back against what is now the norm, maybe try to think about how to minimize the negative impacts of what are now common attitudes? But that requires admitting a lot of people on here are absolutely out-of-touch boomers.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#12

Post by Wilsoniumite » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:05 PM UTC

ixtli wrote: post #9

Very good and well-written. I wish we would also acknowledge that the market, by disincentivizing spend on stuff like this, is performing well. It is optimizing. The reason it matters to acknowledge this up front is so that we can, as the article says, get to the rule below all this which is that the market is default. This is a clear and thorough example of how the profit motive does not lead to the life any of us w…

In my follow up pieces in the series, I detail a way to make the economy actually see a lot (not all, but way more than before) of that value. I'm pretty proud of it. It might be politically hard, but it's theoretically very sound.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#13

Post by latentframe » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:06 PM UTC

This is the good example of positive externalities => some of the most valuable things in society like the friendships, communities or informal support networks create realbenefits that are important but hard to monetize

Re: The room the economy can't see

#14

Post by kubb » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:08 PM UTC

ixtli wrote: post #9

Very good and well-written. I wish we would also acknowledge that the market, by disincentivizing spend on stuff like this, is performing well. It is optimizing. The reason it matters to acknowledge this up front is so that we can, as the article says, get to the rule below all this which is that the market is default. This is a clear and thorough example of how the profit motive does not lead to the life any of us w…

It's optimizing for something, but ultimately, markets can also be outcompeted by central planning in some sectors.

I view the market more as playing the role of a modern God, something that "works in mysterious ways" and is "omnipresent, omnisapient, and benevolent". Not something we would dare to question, because it’s way too complicated for our little minds to understand. Instead we just need to believe in it.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#15

Post by layer8 » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:10 PM UTC

We shouldn’t expect markets to solve all problems. That’s why there are public institutions and government regulations, to take care of the issues that the markets can’t. That the room only exists due to public grants isn’t a flaw, it’s what a functioning society should be doing. What the economy should do is provide the financing for such programs through taxes.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#16

Post by clickety_clack » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:11 PM UTC

ixtli wrote: post #9

Very good and well-written. I wish we would also acknowledge that the market, by disincentivizing spend on stuff like this, is performing well. It is optimizing. The reason it matters to acknowledge this up front is so that we can, as the article says, get to the rule below all this which is that the market is default. This is a clear and thorough example of how the profit motive does not lead to the life any of us w…

An alternative view is that rooms like these would be a lot more feasible if market pricing of real estate was not being artificially driven up by planning restrictions. Historically, communities were able to afford their own versions of this in their own localities, but this isn’t possible anymore because of property prices. There was a community hall where I grew up that was funded like this along with a local sports club, and I’ve lived in a few North American cities where there are still community club/social houses for different groups (and not just wealthy ones) that were built decades ago.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#17

Post by _aavaa_ » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:11 PM UTC

cobbzilla wrote: post #3

Volunteering is a great way to see lots of these rooms!

The article spends a good deal of time making the point that these rooms are getting more scarce since people can't afford to volunteer their time.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#18

Post by krzat » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:14 PM UTC

Many open source efforts seem to belong to this category as well.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#19

Post by RealityVoid » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:14 PM UTC

PowerElectronix wrote: post #5

It is clear that having that room exist is a priority for some people. The market doesn't have a will of its own or compels people to be efficient and produce returns (which, by the way, this room surely produces down the line). The market is the cumulative wants and needs of the people matched against the cumulative offerings of the same people. Nothing more and nothing less. This room is clearly a need and a want f…

Yes, it's just the people who's needs are met with it have no means to pay for it themselves. This just won't plug itself with this system of incentives and power.

Re: The room the economy can't see

#20

Post by infecto » Fri, Jun 19, 2026, 1:15 PM UTC

alephnerd wrote: post #11

How much of this is just due to changing tastes? For example, Minecraft, Roblox, or an Xbox live subscription are the new lobbies for younger generations. Heck, the article mentions Internet cafes but those died out once computer and smartphone penetration reached high double digits. There are fewer of these third spaces because there is less demand for them than before due to changing preferences, as could be seen w…

I suspect this is the real key. Reminds me of a lot of other discussions similar to this where it boils soon to folks overweighting their own desires and underweighting the average consumer.

I remember growing up going to my local PC repair shop into their back work area. They smoked, played Ultima Online during the day and had other friends that came and hung out. That is how a bygone era, different but similar to the thought of third spaces.