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Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

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11–20 of 53 posts

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#11
post #2

Javascript is.

Agree 100%. You don't have to install anything. It's on every machine with a modern web browser, even mobile devices.

It's even got the "nastiness" factor down. :-)

We're also starting to see things like Snap written in pure JavaScript/HTML5:

http://snap.berkeley.edu/snapsource/snap.html

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#13
The one key difference between BASIC and (python lua javascript & etc) has nothing to do with the language at all: modern computers don't boot straight in to a REPL. Anyone who used a C64 more than likely knows a little BASIC, can't say the same for naive Windows or Mac users.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#14
There is no new Basic. Computers are massively more complex now and expectations have changed as well with the Internet and tablets and smart phones being what they are. Most first-world kids would be bored out of their minds with Basic.

But Python is a fine programming language for beginners. A Raspberry-pi would be another good teaching tool. Processing might be interesting to some kids as well...

But there is no new Basic, no new Logo, no new Oregon Trail, no new Math Blasters. Those things belong to a different era.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#15
post #2

Javascript is.

Agree 100%. You don't have to install anything. It's on every machine with a modern web browser, even mobile devices. It's even got the "nastiness" factor down. :-) We're also starting to see things like Snap written in pure JavaScript/HTML5: http://snap.berkeley.edu/snapsource/snap.html

Not to forget the rapid evolution of the language, ECMAScript 6 will get ... 1. classes http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:classes 2. modules http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:modules and more (http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:proposals).

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#16

The one key difference between BASIC and (python lua javascript & etc) has nothing to do with the language at all: modern computers don't boot straight in to a REPL. Anyone who used a C64 more than likely knows a little BASIC, can't say the same for naive Windows or Mac users.

Maybe the modern equivalent of "boot straight in to a REPL." is starting a browser, everybody and his grandma knows how to do that, and if that is done, Javascript is closer than any other programming language. I can imagine a default, browser based Javascript REPL just being one mouseclick away. that can be done and probably will be done sooner or later.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#17

For someone who already knows how to program, Python seems to be very easy to pick up. It's still a tremendously more complex language than BASIC. I help teach an after-school programming class for middle schoolers. Last year, we tried using Python. While some students got the hang of it, many seemed confused and demotivated. This year, I wrote a simple TinyBASIC REPL from scratch[1], aiming to produce the simplest s…

>I've built a Logo[2] implementation so that we can move into writing modular, reusable procedures and play with graphics.

I've always felt that it's hard to go against Logo. When I was a kid, there was a direct connection between what I did on the keyboard and what the turtle would do.

That language changes your brain, not your data. Thus, it is one of the most important languages.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#18
post #16

The one key difference between BASIC and (python lua javascript & etc) has nothing to do with the language at all: modern computers don't boot straight in to a REPL. Anyone who used a C64 more than likely knows a little BASIC, can't say the same for naive Windows or Mac users.

Maybe the modern equivalent of "boot straight in to a REPL." is starting a browser, everybody and his grandma knows how to do that, and if that is done, Javascript is closer than any other programming language. I can imagine a default, browser based Javascript REPL just being one mouseclick away. that can be done and probably will be done sooner or later.

> browser based Javascript REPL

Cmd-Opt-J[0]. While easy to get to, it's not the same as being forced into a REPL every time you use your computer; you still have to know it's there, lessening the temptation to jump right in and break things.

[0] or insert browser/platform appropriate shortcut for JS console/debugger here

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#19
I tried it as "first language" and it's a freaking pain, I still don't understand the "everything is an object" stuff and why to use modules for everything instead of solving problems with your own code. BASIC is way better for beginner's, especially kids.

Re: Is Python The New Basic? ("Python For Kids")

#20
The biggest reason BASIC was popular to teach back in the day, is because it is very simple. You are allowed to use GOTO statements which will make (bad) programming a whole lot easier for absolute beginners. On the other hand Python is a well-designed language. It encourages both OOP and FP, and honestly I am not convinced that just because smart people are actively pushing Python to become "the next BASIC", it is going to be very interesting for absolute beginners with little exposure to math and logic.
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