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Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

paulkrugman.substack.com

11–20 of 115 posts

Re: Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

#11
Krugman. He couldn’t write a single sentence in an article about Europe without mentioning Trump.

This is the same guy that said the internet was not going to be a big thing, made wildly incorrect predictions about everything from post-Covid inflation to Obama-era growth predictions, and was oblivious to the downsides of zero interest rate policy.

At this point, Krugmans work should be considered entertainment at best, or maybe political comedy.

Re: Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

#12
> Yet productivity growth as conventionally measured has in fact been much faster in the US than in Europe. How can this be consistent with the fact that there has been virtually no change in the relative value of goods produced per hour? That’s the apparent US-Europe paradox. What explains it is the fact that the US and European economies produce different mixes of goods – a qualifier that is not picked up in the conventional measures of productivity. And that difference in mixes of goods affects the prices at which productivity measures should be calculated in order to make a meaningful comparison across countries

One of the most important things to recognize is that the vernacular meaning of "productivity", which would be something to do with how hard people work and how many widgets they turn out, is not the same as the technical economic term "productivity", which is roughly GDP divided by hours worked. This causes a lot of discourse with people talking past each other.

The examples relate to tech companies. If you think about, say, Youtube, that (a) contributes a lot to US GDP and (b) doesn't cost European consumers all that much. Indeed, a lot of stuff produced by Silicon Valley is ""free"" (ad-supported or free tier) at the point of use.

This is before we get into complicated cases like international attribution of revenue, such as Apple Ireland.

Re: Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

#14
post #6

Krugman so badly wants this to be true. But handwaving away massive difference in IT innovation and in practical data like housing size and vastly greater American consumption does not make it true. Just 20% of European homes even have air conditioning. European industrial energy costs are more than 2x the U.S. Don't ignore the data. Europe is behind and falling behind at an ever-faster clip. And the strategic issues…

Air conditioning is not needed in most of Europe, no idea why that would be a measurement of economic advancement. Krugman presented arguments with data, it'd be nice to see your data that counters Krugman's argument, not a whole different set of measurements that you are defining as the basis of comparison. It's just a strawman with makeup.

That does not seem to ring true. 175k people die annually of heat in Europe.

https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/01-08-2024-statement--h...

Re: Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

#15

Krugman so badly wants this to be true. But handwaving away massive difference in IT innovation and in practical data like housing size and vastly greater American consumption does not make it true. Just 20% of European homes even have air conditioning. European industrial energy costs are more than 2x the U.S. Don't ignore the data. Europe is behind and falling behind at an ever-faster clip. And the strategic issues…

I don't buy into this critique at all... I live in two cities in Europe. I like our size of houses. I like not needing to own a car. I like that in both of the cities I live in there are 8 supermarkets within ten minutes walk. I like that I never have to think about healthcare costs. I've never felt the need for air conditioning. And when I see Americans' lives, they seem full of crappy stuff that I have no need for, food that's positively unhealthy. Not to mention guns, etc, etc.

Re: Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

#16
> 10% of the US economy is IT

The US is the IT-supplier of the world. I don't know how large a % of that comes for outside the US. But with all the 'shenanigans' of the Trump regime and the trust the US has lost due to that, that should lead to losing IT business from the rest of the world.

In other words, If Europe would disavow using US IT, as would be the wise choice I think, then Europe might close the gap.

I just hope this is not just wishful thinking though.

Re: Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

#17
> What should worry Europe, instead, are the geopolitical implications of US/Chinese leadership in advanced technology. We used to have a global economic system overseen by a mostly benign and in any case law-abiding hegemon. That system was, however, gradually eroding with the rise of China, and has now taken a drastic hit with America’s abandonment of the rules it largely created.

This is the underlying theme of Europe 2031, a scenario ostensibly in the spirit of AI 2027. (https://europe2031.ai/; discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48489996)

Re: Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

#18
post #6

Krugman so badly wants this to be true. But handwaving away massive difference in IT innovation and in practical data like housing size and vastly greater American consumption does not make it true. Just 20% of European homes even have air conditioning. European industrial energy costs are more than 2x the U.S. Don't ignore the data. Europe is behind and falling behind at an ever-faster clip. And the strategic issues…

Air conditioning is not needed in most of Europe, no idea why that would be a measurement of economic advancement. Krugman presented arguments with data, it'd be nice to see your data that counters Krugman's argument, not a whole different set of measurements that you are defining as the basis of comparison. It's just a strawman with makeup.

I am unaware of the US situation, but there are vast differences in housing quality across Europe. Compare the Netherlands, even bad parts of the countryside, to the Greek or Romanian countryside. WTF! And where you'd need air conditioning (Southern Italy, Sicily, Southern Greece) you won't find air conditioning, outside of some very rich enclaves (like parts of Malta, a small part of Sicily, some Greek and Adriatic Islands). And there's 1 reason for that: they can't afford it.

And if we're being entirely honest ... most large European cities I've seen certainly could benefit from having half thrown down and rebuilt. As well as essentially all of the smaller ones.

And as for one of Paul Krugman's comment "Americans, however, have more stuff, that is, material goods: Our houses and cars, in particular, are much bigger. Europeans, on the other hand, have more time ..."

That's not because Europeans don't want big houses, don't want infinite stuff. In very large parts of Europe they can't afford it. And they certainly want more and longer jobs. They just can't find jobs that pay enough to justify giving up free time. But would they work, say, 44 hours per week for a 15-20% raise? (because it's 15-20% more compared to a 38 hour week) I know people that wouldn't, but I also know people that would love such an opportunity.

Re: Challenging the Narrative of European Decline

#19
So, what he says is that productivity gains in the U.S. are:

1. Only apparent when measured at 2017 prices but not when measured at PPP (purchase power).

2. In the US most of productivity gains are concentrated at the tech industry and California. The rest of the economy (and most of non-California states) are less productive than Europe.

Personally, I am not entirely convinced but these are interesting arguments. It is loudly obvious to any non-American that the US healthcare is very far away from being "productive".

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