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Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

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Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#11

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

yardstick wrote: post #7
bobthepanda wrote: post #3

i do wonder, that in the age where we have image and video creation out of the bag, whether or not this will result in whole classes of evidence becoming completely unreliable.

There used to be - probably still are - cameras that would digitally sign all their images. Used in crime scenes? Maybe we will end up seeing wider adoption of this, despite the privacy implications. Hackers attention then will focus (once again) on the certificate supply chain and crypto hardware.

I worked for a company that made these. We sold expensive software to the FBI.

Took about six months for someone to crack the hash.

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#12

Post by __del__ »

aorloff wrote: post #8
yardstick wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be - probably still are - cameras that would digitally sign all their images. Used in crime scenes? Maybe we will end up seeing wider adoption of this, despite the privacy implications. Hackers attention then will focus (once again) on the certificate supply chain and crypto hardware.

I imagine in this age of blockchains you could embed into a media file a signature that proved it was no older than the timestamp of when it occurred, the digital equivalent of a hostage-proof-of-life photo with a recent newspaper But I don't know of a cryptographic mechanism to ensure that a digital image is not more recent than a particular time

wouldn't that be a hash of the image signed by a trusted entity and stored on a chain? maybe i'm overlooking why this doesn't work

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#14

Post by [deleted] »

aorloff wrote: post #8
yardstick wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be - probably still are - cameras that would digitally sign all their images. Used in crime scenes? Maybe we will end up seeing wider adoption of this, despite the privacy implications. Hackers attention then will focus (once again) on the certificate supply chain and crypto hardware.

I imagine in this age of blockchains you could embed into a media file a signature that proved it was no older than the timestamp of when it occurred, the digital equivalent of a hostage-proof-of-life photo with a recent newspaper But I don't know of a cryptographic mechanism to ensure that a digital image is not more recent than a particular time

[deleted]

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#16

Post by Terr_ »

gcr wrote: post #15
radicaldreamer wrote: post #4

I wonder how many people have been unjustly imprisoned between planted evidence, made up evidence, and illegal parallel construction…

Here in the US? Probably a large double-digit percentage of cases imo…

Especially if law enforcement uses Parallel Construction [0], lying to the court about the process taken.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#17

Post by deepserket »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11
yardstick wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be - probably still are - cameras that would digitally sign all their images. Used in crime scenes? Maybe we will end up seeing wider adoption of this, despite the privacy implications. Hackers attention then will focus (once again) on the certificate supply chain and crypto hardware.

I worked for a company that made these. We sold expensive software to the FBI. Took about six months for someone to crack the hash.

What about a system that saves in some way the hash in a Blockchain, and if you, eg, XOR the hash of the video with the hash of the previous block you will "certainly" know that the video was created between the previous block and the block where the hash is saved in. That's a starting point.

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#18

Post by wahern »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #2

per ft.com: https://archive.fo/BIOej [The Derbyshire Police] declined to give more detail about what the evidential material consisted of. The term [evidential material] can be used to describe witness statements.

I don't know if it's still the case in the UK, but in the common law and still in the US this why all substantive evidence, with very rare exception (e.g. dying statements), is witness testimony given on the stand. It may seem absurd when a witness or expert is given a transcript of an earlier statement or report just to recite it, but this is exactly why.

The loophole is all the powers the police and government have to more-or-less punish someone before a trial, or even before charges.

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#19

Post by gcr »

aorloff wrote: post #8
yardstick wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be - probably still are - cameras that would digitally sign all their images. Used in crime scenes? Maybe we will end up seeing wider adoption of this, despite the privacy implications. Hackers attention then will focus (once again) on the certificate supply chain and crypto hardware.

I imagine in this age of blockchains you could embed into a media file a signature that proved it was no older than the timestamp of when it occurred, the digital equivalent of a hostage-proof-of-life photo with a recent newspaper But I don't know of a cryptographic mechanism to ensure that a digital image is not more recent than a particular time

Publish hash(image) on the blockchain at a verifiable time, then publish the image itself.

The image contains the previous block’s hash.

Wouldn’t this establish both a lower bound and an upper bound on the time the image could have been produced?

Re: Police officer investigated for using AI to 'create evidence' in multiple cases

#20

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

deepserket wrote: post #17
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a company that made these. We sold expensive software to the FBI. Took about six months for someone to crack the hash.

What about a system that saves in some way the hash in a Blockchain, and if you, eg, XOR the hash of the video with the hash of the previous block you will "certainly" know that the video was created between the previous block and the block where the hash is saved in. That's a starting point.

Might have a point. This was before blockchain.

I suspect that the cops wouldn’t like the chain public, though.

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