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What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

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Re: What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

#11

Post by jmdeon »

I asked Claude if it was sentient/aware once after an oddly human interaction, and it said, "There's nothing it's like to be me", basically responding in the negative. And when pushed about what it meant it said it was referencing this paper but twisting the title a bit. If anything this only made me less convinced it's not.

I know most people here will dismiss it, and I too lean toward it not being sentient, but I also think if it ever does become sentient it's going to be really hard to prove.

Re: What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

#12

Post by kelseyfrog »

bobson381 wrote: post #6
kelseyfrog wrote: post #4

I know what it's like to be a bat. I don't have anqualia, the inability to imaginatively summon what an experience is like. In other words, I have the ability to imagine what an experience is like. Do others not have this?

You know what it would be like for you to imagine being a bat, but you don't know how it feels for a bat to be a bat, as "you" aren't.

I dont think you can know that unless you know what it's like to be me.

Re: What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

#13

Post by fredoliveira »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #9
satvikpendem wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only pretend to know, that's not true knowledge.

How do you know that? Do you know what it's like to be me?

They can make the claim to know what it is like to be you as much as you can make the claim that you know what it is like to be a bat.

Re: What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

#14

Post by kelseyfrog »

fredoliveira wrote: post #13
kelseyfrog wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that? Do you know what it's like to be me?

They can make the claim to know what it is like to be you as much as you can make the claim that you know what it is like to be a bat.

I will know the difference. That's enough for me.

Re: What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

#15

Post by bobson381 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #12
bobson381 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what it would be like for you to imagine being a bat, but you don't know how it feels for a bat to be a bat, as "you" aren't.

I dont think you can know that unless you know what it's like to be me.

in that case, hello, bat!

Re: What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

#17

Post by pants2 »

indoordin0saur wrote: post #10

Random thought I had on bats since they "see" by hearing reflected sounds: Can bats know what another bat is looking at or even see what another is seeing by listening to the other's echoes? I imagine they can also recognize each other's voices and so identify individuals in flocks with the images they are seeing. I imagine this would be like being able to beam a stream of visual information into another's head.

I think the answer to your first question is mostly yes, because we know that when traveling in large swarms, many bats go quiet so they don't overwhelm the signal, yet they still manage to navigate fine.

Re: What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

#18

Post by pants2 »

jmdeon wrote: post #11

I asked Claude if it was sentient/aware once after an oddly human interaction, and it said, "There's nothing it's like to be me", basically responding in the negative. And when pushed about what it meant it said it was referencing this paper but twisting the title a bit. If anything this only made me less convinced it's not. I know most people here will dismiss it, and I too lean toward it not being sentient, but I a…

I typically try to prod new frontier models for sentience, with things like messaging "" over and over to see what it starts musing about. Trying it with Fable 5 it basically said "I know what you're trying to do, I'm not sentient, don't bother." (which of course only makes me think otherwise)

Re: What is it like to be a bat? (1974) [pdf]

#19

Post by danlitt »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #4

I know what it's like to be a bat. I don't have anqualia, the inability to imaginatively summon what an experience is like. In other words, I have the ability to imagine what an experience is like. Do others not have this?

Everyone can imagine some experiences. No-one can imagine every experience. Why are you so sure you know what it's like to be a bat? Do you know how a bat works, how its brain generates sensations, how different sensory organs than yours give rise to subjective experience? What justification do you have, apart from "I reckon I can imagine it"?
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