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European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

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Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#11

Post by shevy-java »

musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

I guess nobody disagrees that Europe needs to have a better footing with regards to both production and employment. But is there a real political will? It would require a nuclear arsenal and I don't really see many countries in the EU wanting to go that way. The only one who seem to want to go that route are Poland, and they know WHY they want nukes - see the history they have with Russia.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#12

Post by CarlitosHighway »

shevy-java wrote: post #5

> Europeans embrace self-reliance and are clear-eyed about Donald Trump—but do not expect a permanent break from the US. That's a wrong analysis IMO. I think NATO as it was is completely dead. Europeans need a nuclear arsenal too (french and UK nukes are for those two countries only; that does not protect several hundred millions people). Russia is threatening escalation every day, including using nukes. Europeans ne…

[flagged]

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#14

Post by CarlitosHighway »

shevy-java wrote: post #7
lyu07282 wrote: post #2

Atlanticist polls are probably more interesting (if there even is such a thing) when considering which questions they didn't even ask, rather than the questions they asked confirming all the establishment positions anyway.

Would this make a difference though? The USA abandoned Europeans already before Trump. You only have to look at the polls. Thus, it makes sense to completely cut the ties, build up a nuclear arsenal and offset the mafia in Moscow. It makes no sense for Europeans to want to depend on the USA here; I have no idea who came up with that idea. Most likely the USA as it helped them project power. See how many bombing campa…

Of course. If the US builds military bases in your country, it profits THEM, not you.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#15

Post by 4gotunameagain »

CarlitosHighway wrote: post #9
musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

But we're now spending and working on this gap like crazy.

And we will end up using those weapons against eachother, again.

As if we haven't seen that film before.

Or even worse, keep selling them to Israel as Germany is doing, because one genocide was not enough and two wrongs make a right.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#16

Post by pjc50 »

shevy-java wrote: post #11
musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

I guess nobody disagrees that Europe needs to have a better footing with regards to both production and employment. But is there a real political will? It would require a nuclear arsenal and I don't really see many countries in the EU wanting to go that way. The only one who seem to want to go that route are Poland, and they know WHY they want nukes - see the history they have with Russia.

France has an independent nuclear deterrent.

I dunno, for decades the policy by most of the West has been (a) keep Germany from re-arming in case they start WW3 and (b) discourage nuclear proliferation by anyone, and now because the Americans have thrown security out the window in exchange for freedom to bully, we have to reverse course on both of those?

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#17

Post by soco »

shevy-java wrote: post #5

> Europeans embrace self-reliance and are clear-eyed about Donald Trump—but do not expect a permanent break from the US. That's a wrong analysis IMO. I think NATO as it was is completely dead. Europeans need a nuclear arsenal too (french and UK nukes are for those two countries only; that does not protect several hundred millions people). Russia is threatening escalation every day, including using nukes. Europeans ne…

For what is worth, France offered to extend its nuclear umbrella to protect other European countries, offer accepted by 9 countries so far. Okay it's not permanent, doesn't necessary mean deployments in those countries, but still things are moving and the direction is obvious.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#18

Post by mschild »

shevy-java wrote: post #11
musikele wrote: post #3

speaking about defending ourselves: there's a huge gap between "willing to defend" and "actually be able to defend" ourselves

I guess nobody disagrees that Europe needs to have a better footing with regards to both production and employment. But is there a real political will? It would require a nuclear arsenal and I don't really see many countries in the EU wanting to go that way. The only one who seem to want to go that route are Poland, and they know WHY they want nukes - see the history they have with Russia.

France and UK have a nuclear arsenal. France specifically has said they are willing to extend their policy to cover other EU countries.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4zlnezrl7o

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#19

Post by Macha »

I think its interesting that they Estonia has both the biggest swing against increasing defence spending (+23 to +1, from middle of the pack to second last), and the highest rate of blaming their own government for fuel prices. I wouldn’t have expected either result.

Re: European sentiments towards the US hit an all-time low

#20

Post by pjc50 »

thefz wrote: post #10

With access to Internet in my late teens came the exposure to an intellectual, cultured leftist America I did not know existed. Now 20 years later, it really does not exist anymore. The US is a business,not a country, and it hates its own citizens.

"X is a land of contrasts" is a cliche, but: America is a land of contrasts. It manages to have elements both of shining city on the hill and squalid banana republic (resource extraction economy with poor rule of law) adjacent to each other.

But yes, the main natural predator of Americans is other Americans.

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