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Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

gizmodo.com

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Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#11

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #4

Media: "X is horrible!" Media: "Americans Don't Like X"

It's true that folks are unhappy when media does it's actual damn job and explains the things that bring harm.

However, a useless media is also a thing and it exists right along side of worthwhile media.

News Media: [Lockstep silence on Gov surveillance before 2013. Mostly silent on Gov/Corp surveillance after. Rarely reports on pols trading campaign cash for law/power]

Surveillance Is Everywhere and is being deployed against everyone possible.

Public: Increasingly exploited. Seemingly conditioned. Many are giddy after voting for a lying, grifting autocrat. Most don't give a thought to reelecting pols funded by career bribery.

    I prefer the news media
    that honors it's 1A protections
    by actually informing the public.

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#12

Post by [deleted] »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #11
pfannkuchen wrote: post #4

Media: "X is horrible!" Media: "Americans Don't Like X"

It's true that folks are unhappy when media does it's actual damn job and explains the things that bring harm. However, a useless media is also a thing and it exists right along side of worthwhile media. News Media: [Lockstep silence on Gov surveillance before 2013. Mostly silent on Gov/Corp surveillance after. Rarely reports on pols trading campaign cash for law/power] Surveillance Is Everywhere and is being deploye…

[deleted]

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#13

Post by yoyohello13 »

_23sd wrote: post #9

I have several friends who used to lament the loss of manufacturing jobs as a ticket to the middle class, but now say they're going to protest a proposed data center, which feels a bit ironic. None really link it to AI's social impact like Gizmodo does here, the argument always starts with "I don't understand what they need a data center for" (often genuinely wanting me to explain it since I work with computers) and…

How are data centers creating manufacturing jobs?

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#14

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

vitally3643 wrote: post #10
_23sd wrote: post #9

I have several friends who used to lament the loss of manufacturing jobs as a ticket to the middle class, but now say they're going to protest a proposed data center, which feels a bit ironic. None really link it to AI's social impact like Gizmodo does here, the argument always starts with "I don't understand what they need a data center for" (often genuinely wanting me to explain it since I work with computers) and…

Datacenters don't create jobs and drain local resources. It takes a couple dozen people to fully staff a datacenter. That's literally a rounding error in employment statistics. Framing it as an argument against American manufacturing or jobs is complete nonsense.

> Datacenters don't create jobs and drain local resources.

Recap

    DATACENTERS DON'T CREATE JOBS

    DATACENTERS DRAIN LOCAL RESOURCES

    DATACENTERS DRIVE UP PRICES Of CRITICAL COMPONENTS 5-FOLD

    [there are countless more lines but you get the idea]
Datacenters are the greatest epic tragedy since car culture/trespassing culture mass-murdered childhood.

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#16

Post by polski-g »

falkensmaize wrote: post #2

It seems like there’s very little upside to allowing one in your state. They don’t bring in large amounts of new jobs once construction is done, they leech power and water like vampires increasing costs and depleting resources, they add noise and light pollution to nearby areas, they’re ugly. They only seem to benefit large tech companies.

[flagged]

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#17

Post by _23sd »

vitally3643 wrote: post #10
_23sd wrote: post #9

I have several friends who used to lament the loss of manufacturing jobs as a ticket to the middle class, but now say they're going to protest a proposed data center, which feels a bit ironic. None really link it to AI's social impact like Gizmodo does here, the argument always starts with "I don't understand what they need a data center for" (often genuinely wanting me to explain it since I work with computers) and…

Datacenters don't create jobs and drain local resources. It takes a couple dozen people to fully staff a datacenter. That's literally a rounding error in employment statistics. Framing it as an argument against American manufacturing or jobs is complete nonsense.

>Framing it as an argument against American manufacturing or jobs is complete nonsense.

It is a strong argument against those things in at least three ways: (1) if you want to mandate that high tech manufacturing come back to America (e.g. "just make iPhones here" which seems to be a common sentiment in my circles), it would be foolish to suppress an industry creating insatiable demand for high tech components and ensuring that it goes offshore at a time when other countries are also trying to build more local manufacturing. To say nothing of components and construction materials that are already manufactured here. (2) there are very few types of industry that would create less local environmental impact than a data center, no chance if you think data centers use too much water you'd be okay with the toxic chemicals that chip fabs work with. (3) since America is a high wage country with a lot of R&D strength, any factories we build are naturally going to be much more automated than they are in low wage countries. Being against entire industries because individual facilities don't create enough jobs would probably be quite limiting in the types of manufacturing you'd approve of as well.

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#19

Post by db48x »

pylua wrote: post #7
ecshafer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has been dragging its feet in increasing power capacity and modernizing the grid. Data Centers (and one day EVs) are the kind of push we need to get the complacent monopolies to do the work. The water concerns are absolutely overblown, the paper that everyone draws their numbers from had to be ammended because they had a 1000x water usage error. When a poor town has an empty lot get converted to a data center,…

I’m not against data centers, but they need to come with their own clean power supply, and export minimal pollution to its neighbors . If you can’t provide that it’s not worth the downsides for the community.

Small power plants are less efficient and more polluting than larger ones. They are also harder to inspect and certify on a regular schedule. A single 1GW power facility in your county is much better than 10000 small power plants, one for each business.

Re: Americans Have Grown Dramatically Anti-Data Center

#20

Post by xg15 »

ecshafer wrote: post #6
falkensmaize wrote: post #2

It seems like there’s very little upside to allowing one in your state. They don’t bring in large amounts of new jobs once construction is done, they leech power and water like vampires increasing costs and depleting resources, they add noise and light pollution to nearby areas, they’re ugly. They only seem to benefit large tech companies.

The US has been dragging its feet in increasing power capacity and modernizing the grid. Data Centers (and one day EVs) are the kind of push we need to get the complacent monopolies to do the work. The water concerns are absolutely overblown, the paper that everyone draws their numbers from had to be ammended because they had a 1000x water usage error. When a poor town has an empty lot get converted to a data center,…

> Data Centers (and one day EVs) are the kind of push we need to get the complacent monopolies to do the work.

Genuinely interested to know, has this actually happened on a larger scale? I.e. data centers triggering a systematic push to modernize the grid?

My impression (from headlines) was that companies either accept rising prices for grid power or generate their own power - using noisy, polluting and CO2 emitting gas turbines. In both situations the local communities are left holding the bag.

> they are getting some jobs. 20 jobs of remote hands, plumbers, and security guards is better than zero.

They'll also have made sure they won't ever get any more jobs from that "investment" over the next decades, whereas someone else could have built something with actual job growth instead.

I think those takes are a bit like saying the Fentanyl factory next door is great because it also needs a janitor and the exhaust contains CO2 so will make the plants grow faster.

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