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What I've learned about the trombone

bryanhu.com

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Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#11
post #3
post #2

"The trombone is the only brass instrument in a classical orchestra" is a statement that requires further support.

It’s slightly confusingly phrased, but the full sentence is: > The trombone is the only brass instrument in a classical orchestra […] where the main mode of pitch control is by moving the tuning slide. Which is correct.

I had the same confusion - I'd move the [...] to the following sentence.

Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#12
I've been trying to square the physics and my experience.

Pedal B flat is the fundamental, low B flat is the 2x, F 3x, mid B flat the 4x, D the 5X, high F is 6X, G half sharp is 7X and high B flat is 8X.

The position your music teacher most likely will have told you to adjust is 2nd position - you play it slightly sharper for an A vs the E or C sharp it's also used for.

Why is that? It's the major 3rd that has the largest variation between just and equal temperament. The A is often a 3rd against the F, is that why?

But it seems to me that it's all the notes on the D embouchure that will be off -- 1st position D on the trombone is 5X the fundamental, so it's justly tuned, not equally tuned, so shouldn't it be the one that needs the most adjustment? I guess all wind instruments have this problem, so maybe I don't notice because usually I'm playing in a wind band with very few equally tempered instruments like piano, guitar and glockenspiel?

Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#13
post #9

> But, how can a trombone ever be better than the piano when there’s so many variables? Well, unlike a piano, where each key produces a fixed pitch, a trombone lets me subtly adjust every note as I play. Thanks, but I'll stick to my keyboard's pitch bend control. The trombone's great expressiveness comes at a steep learning cost.

The learning curve is really not that steep. You pretty quickly learn the landmarks for the 7 positions of the slide.

Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#14
post #9

> But, how can a trombone ever be better than the piano when there’s so many variables? Well, unlike a piano, where each key produces a fixed pitch, a trombone lets me subtly adjust every note as I play. Thanks, but I'll stick to my keyboard's pitch bend control. The trombone's great expressiveness comes at a steep learning cost.

Eh I played trombone in high school and it is very forgiving. You can vibe play a trombone.

Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#15
post #9

> But, how can a trombone ever be better than the piano when there’s so many variables? Well, unlike a piano, where each key produces a fixed pitch, a trombone lets me subtly adjust every note as I play. Thanks, but I'll stick to my keyboard's pitch bend control. The trombone's great expressiveness comes at a steep learning cost.

Piano is great for people who learned to play by sight.

Trombone is great for people who learned to play by ear.

For those who can easily hear the 13 cent difference between a justly tuned major third and an equally tuned major third, justly tuned instruments can be really hard to play.

But I am, like most, like you. I first learned on the piano and my ear is pretty bad for an experienced trombonist. I have a pretty good ear compared to the average person, but compared to a typical trombonist, it's really bad.

I play with others who have incredible ears. It makes me jealous.

Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#16
post #9

> But, how can a trombone ever be better than the piano when there’s so many variables? Well, unlike a piano, where each key produces a fixed pitch, a trombone lets me subtly adjust every note as I play. Thanks, but I'll stick to my keyboard's pitch bend control. The trombone's great expressiveness comes at a steep learning cost.

The learning curve is really not that steep. You pretty quickly learn the landmarks for the 7 positions of the slide.

And micro adjusting positions isn't that hard either. If it doesn't sound right, you adjust. The hard part is figuring out whether to adjust up or down. And that's just experience. My ear still isn't good enough to know whether I'm a little sharp or a little flat. But any note I get wrong at tonight's practice will likely be a note I've hit wrong many times in previous practices.

Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#18
post #9

> But, how can a trombone ever be better than the piano when there’s so many variables? Well, unlike a piano, where each key produces a fixed pitch, a trombone lets me subtly adjust every note as I play. Thanks, but I'll stick to my keyboard's pitch bend control. The trombone's great expressiveness comes at a steep learning cost.

Piano is great for people who learned to play by sight. Trombone is great for people who learned to play by ear. For those who can easily hear the 13 cent difference between a justly tuned major third and an equally tuned major third, justly tuned instruments can be really hard to play. But I am, like most, like you. I first learned on the piano and my ear is pretty bad for an experienced trombonist. I have a pretty…

P.S. Here's Jacob Collier demonstrating https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwRSS7jeo5s

Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#19
If you play piano you should find a tuner who does something better than equal temperament. When you accept that changing keys will change the tone of the song you can get a lot better music. You don't need to go to just temperament (and since you still need octave stretch it wouldn't be ideal anyway - though if you can live with playing music in exactly one key it is nice).

I tuned my piano to EBVTIII and I like it. (well I tuned 3 notes and then got my son interested and he tuned the rest). It isn't as hard to tune a piano as professionals make it out. However it takes me about 5x as long so if you can find a good tuner I'd call it worth it.

Re: What I've learned about the trombone

#20
post #14
post #9

> But, how can a trombone ever be better than the piano when there’s so many variables? Well, unlike a piano, where each key produces a fixed pitch, a trombone lets me subtly adjust every note as I play. Thanks, but I'll stick to my keyboard's pitch bend control. The trombone's great expressiveness comes at a steep learning cost.

Eh I played trombone in high school and it is very forgiving. You can vibe play a trombone.

I suppose one's ear gets sharpened fast, out of necessity - but I recoil at imagining what the other band members have to get through meanwhile. The process for violin is the same though.
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