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Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

blog.changs.co.uk

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Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#11

Post by LtWorf »

physicsguy wrote: post #8
brianwawok wrote: post #2

I was so into Python for 10 years, was enjoyable to work in. But have deleted 100k+ lines this year already moving them to faster languages in a post AI codebot world. Mostly moving to go these days.

Go is terrible for scientific/ML work though, the libraries just aren't there. The wrapping C API story is weak too even with LLMs to assist. Try and write a signal processing thing with filters, windowing, overlap, etc. - there's no easy way to do it at all with the libraries that exist.

I think the purpose of go is to write CRUD. Stray from that and you're on your own.

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#12

Post by lexicality »

prodigycorp wrote: post #9
mountainriver wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, I’m not sure how Python survives this outside of machine learning. All of our services we were our are significantly faster and more reliable. We used Rust, it wasn’t hard to do

the funny thing is that everyone, including myself, posited that python would be the winner of the ai coding wars, because of how much training data there is for it. My experience has been the opposite.

a lot of the training data is either for python 2 or just generally very low quality

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#13

Post by rad120 »

kokada wrote: post #4

From this example: lazy from typing import Iterator def stream_events(...) -> Iterator[str]: while True: yield blocking_get_event(...) events = stream_events(...) for event in events: consume(event) Do we finally have "lazy imports" in Python? I think I missed this change. Is this also something from Python 3.15 or earlier?

[flagged]

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#14

Post by lsbehe »

prodigycorp wrote: post #9
mountainriver wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, I’m not sure how Python survives this outside of machine learning. All of our services we were our are significantly faster and more reliable. We used Rust, it wasn’t hard to do

the funny thing is that everyone, including myself, posited that python would be the winner of the ai coding wars, because of how much training data there is for it. My experience has been the opposite.

The tons of python code would be great training data if there was any consistency across the ecosystem. Yet every project I've touched required me to learn it's unique style. Then I'd imagine they practically poisoned half the training set because python2 is subtly different.

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#15

Post by stuaxo »

brianwawok wrote: post #2

I was so into Python for 10 years, was enjoyable to work in. But have deleted 100k+ lines this year already moving them to faster languages in a post AI codebot world. Mostly moving to go these days.

This is straightforward in the first instance, but how do you see maintenance of those projects going forward - especially adding more complex features ?

I can see one way forward being to prototype them in python and convert.

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#16

Post by stuaxo »

lexicality wrote: post #12
prodigycorp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the funny thing is that everyone, including myself, posited that python would be the winner of the ai coding wars, because of how much training data there is for it. My experience has been the opposite.

a lot of the training data is either for python 2 or just generally very low quality

The quality issue doesn't seem unique to Python.

The versioning issue I've seen across libraries that version change in many languages.

I don't tend to hit Python 2 issues using LLMs with it, but I do hit library things (e.g. Pydantic likes to make changes between libraries - or loads of the libraries used a lot by AI companies).

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#17

Post by stingraycharles »

rad120 wrote: post #13
kokada wrote: post #4

From this example: lazy from typing import Iterator def stream_events(...) -> Iterator[str]: while True: yield blocking_get_event(...) events = stream_events(...) for event in events: consume(event) Do we finally have "lazy imports" in Python? I think I missed this change. Is this also something from Python 3.15 or earlier?

[flagged]

> Python is such a weird language. Lazy imports are a bandaid for AI code base monstrosities with 1000 imports

Just because you don’t like a feature doesn’t mean it’s because of AI and bad code.

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#18

Post by deppep »

brianwawok wrote: post #2

I was so into Python for 10 years, was enjoyable to work in. But have deleted 100k+ lines this year already moving them to faster languages in a post AI codebot world. Mostly moving to go these days.

i don’t really see it this way. the value of a token in Python is much higher than it is in lower-level language

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#19

Post by [deleted] »

rad120 wrote: post #13
kokada wrote: post #4

From this example: lazy from typing import Iterator def stream_events(...) -> Iterator[str]: while True: yield blocking_get_event(...) events = stream_events(...) for event in events: consume(event) Do we finally have "lazy imports" in Python? I think I missed this change. Is this also something from Python 3.15 or earlier?

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Python 3.15: features that didn't make the headlines

#20

Post by sigmoid10 »

stingraycharles wrote: post #17
rad120 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Python is such a weird language. Lazy imports are a bandaid for AI code base monstrosities with 1000 imports Just because you don’t like a feature doesn’t mean it’s because of AI and bad code.

I think this is just a natural consequence of an easy-to-use package system. The exact same story as with node. If you don't want lots of imports, don't make it so damn easy to pile them into projects. I'm frankly surprised we still see so few supply chain attacks, even though they picked up their cadence dramatically.
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